Is Citizen's making things up as they go?

Two weeks ago I had done a citizens four point inspection on the NACHI form that has been approved by Citizen’s. They came back requesting a Citizen’s roof condition certificate to accompany the four point report.Today I get an email from a H/O that I had done a Citizen’s four point inspection for several months back / again on the NACHI form that was approved by Citizen’s. ARE YOU READY FOR THIS ONE?! This time they want a Citizen’s electrical form to accompany the four point report. I am not even sure , as a licensed HI that I can even sign this. It is asking for an ER or an EC license. Has anybody else run into this?
John Miller
PRP Home Inspections
DeLand, FL.

Are you licensed?

The NACHI form is valid without an electrician. In most cases it is the agent that needs to be educated. Give the agent the link below and click on inspection requirements. Requirements.pdf

All homes over 25 years old are going to need the roof certification, even if they have a four point.

All different inspections. You do the inspection the client requests. When they call you and want another form then great another inspection you must charge them for. It is not your fault what is requested ever.

If they need the citizens electrical form then have a licensed electrical contractor or journeyman do it. Do you really want to say all that the citizens electrical form states?

Good Luck

You should have enough data from the 4 point to complete either form. The licensing is another issue.

And yes. Many Insurance inspection clients often follow up with an issue of some sort. They needed a four point, roof cert, electric, security first water form,ect… The industry is always changing, like the recent form change and the interpretation of the mitigation features and now adding home inspectors. The only way to survive is to adapt to the changes… have an engineer, electrician, appraiser, surveyor, and lawyer on standby, not for if, but when you need them.

Many customers do not understand the purpose of the 4 point (or for that matter the wind mitigation) inspections. They erroneously believe all they have to do is have the inspection done and they will “get” their insurance or the reduced premiums. They do not see it as a pass or fail scenario but simply a formality their insurance company has tasked them with and it will granted automatically once the report is finished. They always seem surprised when their insurance company puts new requirements on them to actually “do something” and upgrade the systems or just make basic repairs. If and when a report comes back negative from their carrier, they assume the inspector is responsible and look to him or her to make it “all okay again”. Between the OIR, Citizens and the other insurance carriers in the FL they have managed to booger the whole thing up so bad none of them really know what they want anymore. The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Their internal memos and training must be very poor because there are still agents out there operating in the dark or on old data and information.

As of Agust 1st all homes over 25 years of age reagrdless of location require a Roof Certification Form.
Citizens is not consitant in their application of this rule.
The last official Bullitine from Citizens was Januray 1, 2010 listing INterNACHI as authorized to perform the Four Point.
If you have a problem with your HI license being accepted : get your Insurance agent to e-mail everything to:
For Gods sake - don’t go blasting her with e-mails your own self!!! Let your Agent do it.
But for right now - the Roof Cert does have to have the roofer, contractor license bla bla.
In some isolated cases - if you climb your ladder and include at least 2 roof level photos and submit with your Four Point - SOMETOIMES Citiznes will accept this in stead of the addtional Roof Cert. We’ve been doing this since the new rule beccame affective and have had 99% succes for our clients.

for Citizens, everyone else is different.

With Citizens: If it meets FBC and is greater than 25 years, a wind mit will be enough(new rule).

As of Agust 1st all homes over 25 years of age reagrdless of location require a Roof Certification Form?

**Roof Rules
**[FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2]The PR-M roof rules are changing, effective 8/1/10, to mirror the personal residential wind (PR-W) roof rules announced in [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2]Agent Technical Bulletin #008-09[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2]:

  1. Mobile homes with roof coverings more than 25 years old are not eligible for coverage with Citizens.

  2. Homes with roof coverings more than 25 or 50 years old, depending on the type of covering, are not eligible for coverage with Citizens as provided in the table below.

  3. Roofs that are damaged, have visible signs of leaks or have less than 3 years of remaining useful life are ineligible for coverage.
    [/size][/FONT]**Roof Covering
    **[FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2]Asphalt, fiberglass, composition or wood-shake shingles; built-up tar and gravel; or other roof covering types not included below
    More than 25 years old – not insurable
    Tile, slate, clay, concrete or metal
    More than 50 years – not insurable
    [/size][/FONT]*[FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2]Exception: *[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2]A dwelling may be eligible for coverage if proper documentation is submitted verifying that the roof has at least 3 years of remaining useful life. Risks submitted under this exception must be submitted unbound for review. Proper documentation includes:

  4. Copy of a completed roofing contract

  5. Statement from a roofing contractor showing the estimated age, condition and remaining useful life

  6. Completed
    [/FONT]*[FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2]Roof Condition Certification Form *[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2](CIT RCF-1 11 08)[/size] 1. Other documentation deemed acceptable by Underwriting

I would read this to say that *ROOFS *over 25 years need a roof certification. If you can prove your roof is NOT over 25 - say by permit or receipt - why would you need a certification report? - I know, whatever the clerk in the underwriters office says that day applies - they have all the power.

Do you have something in writing which backs this up?

My experience here in Hillsborough/Pinellas is that Citizens is demanding a Roof Cert on any home 25 years & older regardless of the age of the roof when submitting a B1-1802.

In the past they were accepting my Four-Point Form because I included the questions from the [size=2]CIT RCF-1 11 08 in my roofing section, but once I received my license I began to submit the Citizens form directly and have had no problems.[/size]

Tile roofs older than 50 years require roof cert., shingle/flat over 25 require roof cert… on the 1802, you can identify the type of roof covering next to # 2 and should include a roof cert, if needed

Several Agents have used and accepted 1802 as long as it meets FBC 2001. I have not see a memo or bulletin though. (Several State Farm writing for Citizens)

hope that helps

Just collect the data and pics while your there, then include if needed