Originally Posted By: rmoore This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Heath…
Looks like an "illegal" S trap. Could be fixed (if allowed in your jurisdiction) with an AAV.
As to the water heater. I'm fairly sure CPVC is allowed all the way to the water heater (even though apparantly no consideration has been given to future heater replacement or proper support of the piping). What isn't allowed is the restriction to 1/2" on the TPR discharge line.
-- Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: whandley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
None of that will fly in California, including, but not limited to the improper
size reduction in the TPR valve drain line. We have difficulty sometimes
determining if a structure is fresh water plumbed with plastic pipe because the plastic pipe transitions to copper when exiting the walls to fixtures and
or the water heater. I bump into attic-less structures with flat roofs and vaulted ceilings, if I can’t find a plumbing access, I report copper plumbing
Originally Posted By: Kyle Kubs This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Maybe my vision is skewed with the picture but that doesn’t look like an s trap to me - That type of pvc is not permissible for a T&P discharge tube (reduced or not) Under high temp conditions it will soften and collapse restricting the flow and not purging a sufficient amount of water fast enough…
– Those that say it cannot be done should stop interupting those of us who are hard at work, doing it…
Originally Posted By: John Clayton This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
First off i’m an IPC plumber so my info will be based on that code.
PIC 1.
Steven,
A trap arm extends 3-4 inches before any other connections or changes in direction doesn't prevent it from being an S-trap. However it does mean it isn't Crown vented which is the purpose of requiring a vent connection at or greater than the distance of 2X the pipe diameter away from the trap.
A fixture has an S-trap anytime the weir of the trap is above the connection of the trap arm to the vent. (exception *** If the drain is installed to the requirements for a combination drain vent then the weir of the trap is allowed to be above the connection of the "drain" to the vent. [Food waste grinders are not allowed on combination drain vent systems.]) Therefore the fixture in PIC. 1 has an S-trap. Not to mention an upside down P-trap (some inspectors are picky about drection of flow with unions/ground joints). Is that dishwasher connector plugged or just tubing sticking out of it? Did the tubular tee have a baffle in it? (shine your flashlight though it from behind). Nice j-box.
PIC 2
In line or running traps use to be prohibited in the code but I don't think I've seen it mentioned in the last couple releases. Anyway, the trap is installed backwards with the union on the wrong side. That makes the outlet higher than the inlet so water will probly set in the short horizontal section before the trap. Not sure but it looks like there is a second 90 degree elbow going horizontal to horizontal (requires a clean-out) back to the wall on the trap arm. If there is not a clean out there then the backwards trap creates a second problem by not allowing the J-bend to be removed for proper drain cleaning (removable trap = clean-out).
PIC 3
As already mentioned about the TPRV with the reduced size discharge pipe. Exposed NM cable not allowed per NEC. CPVC can connect directly to an elect. water heater but should do so using CPVC fittings with brass threads.
Originally Posted By: rmoore This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
sramos wrote:
The first picture is not an S trap because the trap arm extends out at least 3-4 inches. This will allow the water to stay in the trap.
I'm sorry...but I have no idea where you get that from. The trap in the first photo turns down and discharges into a vertical drain with no intermediate venting. That is my definition of an "S" trap, whether it's shaped like one or a pretzel. The length of any "arm" does not negate the need for vents. See http://www.nachi.org/tips/1637.gif .
As for Kyle's "That type of pvc is not permissible for a T&P discharge tube"...My copies of the UPC and IPC both indicate that CPVC (which the creamy colored piping in the photo appears to be) is acceptable for the discharge pipe. Local AHJs may vary of course.
I'm not sure what I'm looking at in the 2nd photo.
Aha...Mr Clayton was typing at the same time...I'll defer to him. Thanks John.
-- Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree with Rich and John that the piping at the trap in Pic #1 isn’t correct. There should be a vent connection (vent takeoff, AAV stub, or vented stack) on the trap arm at least 2xD away from the trap, but no more than roughly about 30xD.
John ... I wasn't aware that the IPC required a baffle at the dishwasher drain connection to the tailpiece. No mention of that in the IRC. It does require a "high loop" where the dishwasher drain line is attached to the counter underside, even with the newer dishwashers that have a built in air gap.
Just my opinion and 2-nickels ... 
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: John Clayton This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
My bad Robert,
I wasn't refering to the dishwasher drain connection. I was refering to the 1-1/2" center outlet continuous waste drain tee. I'm not sure that there is any reference to it in the IPC or IRC so maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it. May be that would fall under the proper use of directional fittings. Anyway, a couple months ago I got a large shipment of G.D, end, and center outlet continuous waste drain assemblies from dearborn plastics and they where all missing the baffles in the tees. It was allowing the pumping action of the gabage disposal to push water across the tee and back up through the other basket strainer. In this case you have the pumping action of the G.D. on one side and the pumping action of the dishwasher on the other side.
That probly isn't something that is against code or an inspector may look for but rather just a pet peeve of a plumber that doesn't want to install a substandard product that can produce call-backs... Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
John Clayton wrote:
I was refering to the 1-1/2" center outlet continuous waste drain tee. I'm not sure that there is any reference to it in the IPC or IRC ...
While the IRC allows the dishwasher drain to tie into the tailpiece with a typical wye fitting (P2717), there actually is a requirement in the IRC (P2707) for a "directional fitting" where either a disposal or sink/dishwasher waste line is connected to the sanitary system.
I agree that that fitting connecting the two lines above the trap should be a directional type tee fitting, and may not be right (something like a back-to-back tee with a baffle in the middle to direct a forced flow downward, for those that don't know). [See below]
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
