Nachi member offering kickbacks

Local Inspection Issues Florida and SUNachi Inspectors
41

Originally Posted by jbushart "Are you saying that the home owner and his agent are conspiring in some manner and using these $75 thingies to obtain cheaper rates than they are entitled to? "

Yes, the earlier inspections were ripe with this. If it was not direct conspiracy, it was at the very least passive approval.

The inspectors that always managed to give the highest ratings, got the referrals. Inspectors advertised, that if they couldn’t lower your premium. The inspection fee would be refunded.

However, times change. Now, thanks to the new inspection form, underwriter oversite, and reinspections, this is nolonger exceptable.
The problems created by a rejected inspection usually cuase the agent to loose the client’s business. Some agent have lost a significant portion of their book of business.

That has opened the door to inspectors such as myself. Who only guareentee that the report will be accurate and that I will stand behind it. That I will give excellent service and support to the client and agent. But, the report will be accurate. I make no guarentee of the results.

I perform a minimuim 15 to 20 of these inspection week in and week out. I’m the go to guy for 1/2 dozen agents. I refuse to consider kickbacks. My services are as as important to the agent, as their referrals are to me. If I do my job correctly, they can do theirs without worrying about the inspection.

42

Oh my mistake I guess with all your brains you still could not qualify to be a G.C.

Yes you are right again. Dammit. There is a huge difference between the qualifications of a residential contractor and a General Contractor.

I am sure gonna be sad if a bunch of cowards are laughing behind my back. Bo ho ho ho. iF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY SOMETHING TO SOMEONES FACE THAN i HAVE no respect for you and personally do not care what you think.

43

Hard cases? They are buying a friggin house. If they don’t have the money, let them buy a less expensive house. I wouldn’t comp an inspection. Bad business.

44

I agrere with you.

But these our Insurance inspections not Home inspections…The comps typically occur when the agent screws up. It’s the Insurance Agent I’m helping, not the homeowner…

An example would be: The agent ordered a roof inspection but should of ordered a Wind inspection, or vice versa. It may be an irrational client, who thinks they are getting ripped off with all these insurance inspections. I have already been paid for one inspection. They always offer to pay. But, I comp it and call it ‘being part of the team’.:twisted:

45

Mike,

True. And there is a huge difference in qualifications between a neurosurgeon and a cardiac surgeon. However, they are both surgeons.

What does this comparison have to do with home inspections? Absolutely nothing. And that is my point in chiming in. Your sniping has nothing to do with the inspection industry.

Personally, the successful contractor will make far more than the average HI, so who one would do the other is mind-boggling. By the way, I also qualify for a GC license in my county. Won’t make me a good builder, though. Think twice before you type once. Remember, you asked everyone to help you win a new kitchen, and we all got to see what your’s looked like.

As to this game you all call “wind mitigation” inspections… it is a scam, IMO. A scam all around. It was a program invented by the carrier to mitigate risk or jack your premium (you tell me). It is supported by the contractor, because it helps generate work to fix all those problems found.

IMO, only thoose with NOTHING TO POTENTIALLY GAIN should be allowed to perform these inspections. If you are found to be affilliated with a contractor, agent, or insurer and get comped, you should be prohibited from performing the inspection.

If the inspections were truly ancillary, open to everyone and not mandated, I may feel differently. Since the rules regarding these inspections have resulted in a captive audience, I am against allowing the practice.

46

Conspectors can only find this kind of work, Joe. The home inspection profession is a convenient cover for them until they can return to their full time jobs.

In my opinion, it is impossible to hold conspectors to an ethical standard since their very existence is a contradiction to the best interests of the consumer from the home inspection profession point of view.

They are an ancillary service and have nothing to do with what we are about. Ancillary services are, presently, not governed by the code of ethics. They are free to rape, rob and pillage as long as they do it in accordance with the laws they have purchased from their local government.

47

Yes, Jim. You are speaking of the following COE mandate:

This has to do with performing repairs on something we’ve inspected, which is covered in the SOP.

If I inspect a washing machine, which is not in the SOP, and offer to repair it, I am okay. But, what if I inspect a roof as a part of a wind mitigation inspection. The roof inspection is part of the SOP. Can I repair it? What if I choose, through contract, to inspect ONLY the siding of the house. Or the walkways, discover a trip hazard, and offer to chop it out and re-pour it. A sidewalk inspection is not a home inspection.

How about I EXCLUDE the siding from the scope of the inspection, by contract. Now I walk back to the home and inspect the siding as a siding contractor. Can I repair it?

These are all real questions. For me, the answers are clear. For others, not so clear.

And, while we can argue the applicability of REPAIRING what we inspect, there are certain portions of the COE which are universal, and apply in this instance. They are:

***Duty to the Public ***

The InterNACHI member shall not engage in any practices that could be damaging to the public.
The InterNACHI member shall be fair, honest, impartial, and act in good faith in dealing with the public.
The InterNACHI member shall have no undisclosed conflict of interest with the client, nor shall the InterNACHI member accept or offer any undisclosed commissions, rebates, profits or other benefit, nor shall the InterNACHI member accept or offer any disclosed or undisclosed commissions, rebates, profits or other benefit from real estate agents, brokers or any third parties having financial interest in the sale of the property, nor shall the InterNACHI member offer or provide any disclosed or undisclosed financial compensation directly or indirectly to any real estate agent, real estate broker or real estate company for referrals or for inclusion on lists of preferred and/or affiliated inspectors or inspection companies.
The InterNACHI member shall always act in the interest of the client, unless doing so violates a law, statute or this Code of Ethics.

Could shady dealings relative to so-called “wind mitigation inspections” be made to apply here? That answer depends on how many of those components contained in these inspections are also covered in our SOP…

Interesting, to say the least.

48

Good point, but then again … I am inspecting the basement (covered by the SOP) when I test for mold in it and I am allowed to remediate it (and the conditions causing it) under the current SOP.

I have argued for years that the ethical standards of the association should be applied to all who are members of the association … and not be limited to the services they perform. Whether it is for a full home inspection or ancillary service … when a NACHI member commits an unethical act in the eyes of the public, it is a black eye for all of us. Just because I did it as a part of an ancillary service, I still did it to a consumer as a member of NACHI.

I think we should apply the COE to ancillary services as well to close the loop holes, IMO.

49

I concurred with THE MEEKER!

Taking a picture of nail is quite ridiculous. Taking a picture of a ruler to show (“WHO”) the spacing is stupid. The “WHO” do not trust the inspector?? So, why have a license and sign the fricking document if the writing is worth $*. Only the pictures count…

And then we have the homeless cheap inspector performing wind mitigations for under $75.00 risking his life to take a picture of a nail inside a hot attic roasting his brains and sweating like a pig, while the insurance agent is sitting in his office with cool AC chatting on Face book. Not in my turf!-X](*,)

“THE MEEKER FOR PRESIDENT”

50

That’s what I am talking about. Someone actually gets it. Yeah…

51

If you truly want your pooch screwed… No one screws the pooch like the Florida Legislators. :wink:

52

Worth repeating

53

Mike, John, glad to hear you two are well.

54

As to this game you all call “wind mitigation” inspections… it is a scam, IMO. A scam all around. It was a program invented by the carrier to mitigate risk or jack your premium (you tell me). It is supported by the contractor, because it helps generate work to fix all those problems found.

IMO, only thoose with NOTHING TO POTENTIALLY GAIN should be allowed to perform these inspections. If you are found to be affilliated with a contractor, agent, or insurer and get comped, you should be prohibited from performing the inspection.

If the inspections were truly ancillary, open to everyone and not mandated, I may feel differently. Since the rules regarding these inspections have resulted in a captive audience, I am against allowing the practice.
[/quote]

Sometimes it is better to say nothing, but seeing as you did, please help me out with a few of the issues that you raised. How is having an inspection to get a discount on your insurance a scam? Why should someone who has all the mitigating features pay the same as someone with none?
It does provide work for contractors, but also keeps a lot of home inspectors in work too. Surely it is better to mitigate these risks before a storm, rather than create more work after?
These inspections are not mandated, they are optional for most. These inspections are putting bread on the tables of quite a lot of Nachi members, whether they are contractors or inspectors, if they don’t agree with it, no one is forcing them to perform these inspections.

55

Can someone point me to company or contractor that upgrades a home to meet wind mitigation standards, besides shutter companies and roofing contractors? All homes get new items(roof, shutters, garage doors or windows), but I do not think any of this is driven by wind mitigation inspections.

I do not know of anyone who has made any substantial money upgrading, gable end bracing or clips since MSFH ended.

There has been occasion to refer work to a contractor to add clips to a home and nobody wanted the job.

Roof certifications can develop roofing repairs(You usually need a roofing licensed to do) and 4 points usually needs a sparky or plumber. How are people under the impression that GCs are using insurance inspections to generate work? None of these contractors can fill-out the reports.

The GCs(mostly) only got into this business because of wind mits generated by the MSFH program, but most of the people came from the insurance claims adjuster pool. How come nobody blames this group of work moochers?

I am not being sarcastic(I fit into most of these categories). I trying to see if I missed some logic here.

56

No offense Meeker but maybe if you charged for you wind mits you might feel better about doing them. I would complain about them too if I didn’t get paid for my work.

57

Steve I have no problems with what I or anyone else makes.

I seriously feel that someone is going to get killed because the are trying to take a photograph for an idiot behind a desk.

I feel as a licensed professional I should be able to look then make a determination on what we "SEE"and then that is enough.

I feel we should all photograph what we say to be able to back up our claims when challenged.

I do not feel clients should not get credits we feel they have based on our observations and what we see. It is not easy or safe to be trying to screw around with a camera in a Florida attic.

Someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed trying to “show their work” like a grade school student.

Why most here do not feel our word is enough I do not know.

The new form has done nothing to stop fraud.
All dishonest inspectors just grab a stock photo and stick it into their template.
Marking trusses and photographing them is a joke at best.
Photographing rulers stuck thru cracks in plywood is ridiculous and will read different every place you do it.

I could go on and on and on but it is simple get rid of the photo requirements. We are not children who need to show our work. We do not need to crawl the length of an attic to find an INCORRECTLY installed nail to photograph next to a ruler. wE DO NOT NEED TO DEFACE PEOPLES PROPERTY AND THEN try to get a artistic photo shot showing three different trusses in focus. We should not belly crawl to the end of a low sloop hip roof with blown in insulation to prove it is a clip. Especially if we can part the insulation and view it with a monocular or binocular.

These inspections can and should be completed safely within a few feet of the hatch. We should not be risking our lives and our clients property to get a perfect"shot" of something for a client to get the credit.

If I can see it and say it is there that should be enough.

Please wake up and do something before this next dumb a-s form goes into effect.

58

Mike,
I can see where your coming from but calm down. Take a pill or have a cocktail or some thing. Personal insults are not needed nor will they strengthen any one’s case.
Hell you got John responding in kind and that’s not like him either. Take the time to re-type when you hit the caps lock and do a spell check, it will only make you look all the better.

59

It really irks me that people actually have the time to be offended by something as stupid as someone using caps. It is pure nonsense. I would feel guilty if the thought even entered my mind. Just about everything in this world is more important to me that how someone types.

60

That would be a great invention the UN CAP key.

Remember you heard it first right here.

You just highlight a section of words that are capped and hit Capgn key it can go right next to the Capslk key.

I now officially claim this to me my idea 8/3/11 Michael J. Meeker invents the un cap key.