Need definition of word.

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#1

Originally Posted By: wdecker
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I need a crarification of a term. When one has a foundation and builds up a short, framed wall between the sill plate and the first floor, where the floor joists do not rest on the sill plate but in the top of the short wall, what is this called.


I have heard 'knee wall', but other sources say this refers to a short wall built on the 2nd floor for 1 1/2 story construction. Others have called it a 'cripple' wall.

I have seen this used when the foundation wall is low and the builder wants to increase the height of basement.

Again, is is a short wall that raises the floor joists higher than the sill plate.

Any ideas?

#2

Originally Posted By: ccoombs
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Quote:
When one has a foundation and builds up a short, framed wall between the sill plate and the first floor, where the floor joists do not rest on the sill plate but in the top of the short wall, what is this called.


I would call this a "cripple wall." I use "cripple wall" for any short bearing wall.

I have noticed that many construction terms are geographic.
#3

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Cripple wall. . .

#4

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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Pony wall

#5

Originally Posted By: wdecker
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Thanks guys.


I asked four different carpenters and got three different answers.

I asked you guys and only got two.

An improvment. ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)

#6

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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pony wall


http://www.muni.org/iceimages/bsd/h031.pdf

#7

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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cripple wall - looks like it’s called both


http://www.seismicsafety.com/cripwall.htm

#8

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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Cripple Walls


Sec. 2326.11.5. Cripple Walls. Foundation cripple walls shall be framed of studs not less in size than the studding above with a minimum length of 14 inches (356 mm), or shall be framed of solid blocking. When exceeding 4 feet (1219 mm) in height, such walls shall be framed of studs having the size required for an additional story.

Such walls having a stud height exceeding 14 inches (356 mm) shall be considered to be first-story walls for the purpose of determining the bracing required by Section 2326.11.3. Solid blocking or wood structural panel sheathing may be used to brace cripple walls having a stud height of 14 inches (356 mm) or less.

Spacing of boundary nailing for required wall bracing shall not exceed 6 inches (152 mm) on center along the foundation plate and the top plate of the cripple wall. Nail size, nail spacing for field nailing and more restrictive boundary nailing requirements shall be as required elsewhere in the code for the specific bracing materials used.

#9

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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A special case of a weak storey is the collapsing knee wall, also called “cripple wall” or “pony wall.” The knee wall is the short stub wall in some buildings between the top of the concrete or masonry foundation and the ground floor joists. Its collapse threatens the integrity of the entire structure. The deficiency is often a lack of bracing rather than large openings in the knee wall.


http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/ctus/45_e.html

Knee, cripple or pony

#10

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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Kevin,


Is that your final answer? ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

#11

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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YEP

#12

Originally Posted By: mthomas2
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GOOGLE says:


Results 1 - 10 of about 838 for "cripple wall". (0.85 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 10,400 for "pony wall". (0.14 seconds
Results 1 - 10 of about 25,100 for "knee wall". (0.19 seconds)

Looking at the first few results returned for each, cripple" and "pony" wall apper to be more specific to a wall located directly atop a foundation wall, so my vote would be ?pony wall?.

#13

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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as Will said "a short wall built on the 2nd floor for 1 1/2 story construction. "


A Pony wall as a wall consisting of short sections of wood frame sitting on top of a conventional concrete foundation.

A Cripple wall is a term I don't hear very often anymore (maybe its not politicaly correct, I don't know) but when I do hear it they are refering to a short wall in general.

#14

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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Paul, what’s a regianl thing ? icon_wink.gif

#15

Originally Posted By: rcooke
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kwilliams wrote:
Paul, what's a regianl thing ? ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


Thats one of those Canadian things .
We also spell colour differently.

I guess you spell it regional

Just funnin you a bit Roy sr.
#16

Originally Posted By: rmeyers
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“Knee wall” was the term most commonly used in my 40+ years of experience as a GC in central Illinois.


"Cripple wall" would probably be the most politically correct and logical since the term cripple in carpentry generally refers to a stud in wall framing.

For clarity and using term my clients understand, I have used the term "short wall" in some reports. (With pictures)

"Pony wall" ??, Sounds like a catchy new term created by HI's!!

--
Russ Meyers

#17

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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kwilliams wrote:
Paul, what's a regianl thing ? ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


Ah Kevin you got me

#18

Originally Posted By: mcyr
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= short wall under the slope of a roof.


Cripple Wall = no definition
Cripple Stud= a wood wall framing member that is shorter than full-length studs because it is interrupted by a header or sill.

Pony Wall = no definition

The crippled studs above a header could comprise of a long beam support where it would be prudent to call it a crippled wall.

knee wall would be self explainatory and the term could apply to any wall that is not full height, as it is used here in Maine.

Please help in the explaination of the Pony. Is that a Texas term or a horses helper which would mean that horse is a building term? ha. ha.

Thanks for this explaination if one has it.

Marcel

#19

Originally Posted By: pdacey
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I call it a crippled knee pony wall

#20

Originally Posted By: wdecker
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You know, I am sorry I asked. icon_rolleyes.gif


Seriously, this is why I just LOVE this board. A bunch of experienced, dilligent and well meaning professionals taking the time to 'help' out a fellow inspector.

I vote for 'differently abled wall' and will so name it in my soon to be submitted for state CE approval structure course. I will put the name up to a vote at the class.

Hope some of you yahoos will take the class. The discussion should eat up a couple of hours, therefore allowing me to submit it for 2 more house of CE credit.

Thank you, all, ever so little.



--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com