Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi all,
I just posed a question to Gerry B. asking whether NACHI should offer credit in continuing education for passing the NHIE Exam. His take was that it is a test and not training! I agree to an extent, but like most training courses, you have to take take an extensive test either during or at the end of the course to determine what you have, or have not, learned. The only difference is that for the NHIE, you have to train (study) on your own! Would just like to see the views on this. Perhaps maybe even a poll! Thanks.
Originally Posted By: dbush This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob, I am thinking it through. I tend to agree with Gerry, but I wanted to continue to think it out. I am presently studying for the ICC Combination Residential Inspector to take the test for it, but I do not feel that I should get any CE for the study because it is home study from everything that I can gather. IF it was a classroom environment with a structured program, that would be one thing, but for the test itself, I don’t think it should meet the requirements for CE.
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Dave,
Thanks for responding! I was just trying to draw a more definitive line as to what is, and what is not accepted. On the Continuing Education page, it lists “anything inspection related”, courses , code enforcement, even watching a video! I think education is education whether someone is reading it from a book to you in a classroom ,or your at home reading the book yourself! Also, most state licensing and certification programs accept self training courses toward continuing education requirements. As far as the course you are involved in, well, I have one question. When completed will you be more educated and will it help your profession? O.K. two questions! Then why not get credit for it?
Originally Posted By: dbush This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob, yes it will make me a better inspector, but it is more “centrally” directed towards the IRC and the ICC Codes than what the NHIE is. Studying for the NHIE is a “hodgepodge” of home inspection information. Don’t get me wrong, in any way, I firmly believe that all the studying you can do is not even enough. It is imperative that we study all materials possible, I just don’t believe that taking a test is the proper way to earn the credit. But that is just my opinion.
Originally Posted By: mbailey This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob,
There are a lot of ways to take into consideration what you are asking and referring to. But as far as the NHIE and CE ? I do not think a test should count.
On the continuing ed web page under What Does Not Qualify it does already state ? ? 6. Time spent taking exams or quizzes does not qualify.?
I think continuing education should be done all the time, everyday on some level, in some manner. But just because I do it does not mean I should get credit for taking the time to do it. I consider it a part of being in business ? any business.
-- Mark Bailey
Stonegate Property Inspections LLC
Ponca, NE
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Mark, You stated:“I think continuing education should be done all the time, everyday on some level, in some manner. But just because I do it does not mean I should get credit for taking the time to do it. I consider it a part of being in business ? any business”.
I couldn't agree with you more! But using that logic, you could say that there shouldn't be any CE credit at all! I realize it states that quizzes and tests are not qualified, but that doesn't mean it can't be changed. Don't get me wrong, I am not pushing for this! I am just trying to figure where the thin line between acceptable and unacceptable is drawn, and why! For instance, why is reading a book not accepted and watching a video is? We spent our whole lives in school learning by reading from books right? It's fine with me if the NHIE or like tests and the extensive study that go into it are not accepted, I just think that if other means of self study are accepted, why not this?
Originally Posted By: mbailey This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Now you?re onto some good questions Bob. BTW ? I am in no way implying your first ones were not.
I just think we are now getting to the heart of the matter.
I do not know why the current requirements are the way they are ? my thought is they were established when NACHI had far fewer members and that the need to promote and track CE as an organization was not really there. The lines that were drawn between unacceptable and acceptable were probably made when NACHI was trying to gain legitimacy (is that even a word?) and needed something in place, but did not know what ? or what future needs would bring about. Also at that time the NACHI Library was open and available and considered a means of gaining CE within NACHI?s own requirements.
In regards to CE for self study? some may study for two weeks and pass an exam or get certified ? others may study for six months and not pass? Who would get CE? And how much?
I think the outcome of self study is the qualifying factor. Here?s a something to ponder?Maybe self study for code certification won?t count ? but gaining that credential/certification may count towards CE
I think the CE requirements for NACHI need to be re-visited. I also think our emphasis needs to move more towards accountability and verification for CE compared to whether we pursued CE for our own benefit. In order to qualify for CE I think it needs to be verifiable.
-- Mark Bailey
Stonegate Property Inspections LLC
Ponca, NE
Originally Posted By: wpedley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I also think CE needs to be verifiable. Usually one must study material,
attend classes, participate in discussion, do research, submit reports,
in order to gain enough knowledge to be able to pass any test. So if you
do all that and pass a test you are therefore educated even more and
more qualified to do your job. Everything you can do,including taking
tests should be counted. Anyway you still gained knowdledge that
you didn't necessarily have before. Maybe!!!   
Originally Posted By: rmoore This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
This is a tough one?
On one hand you may have an inspector who has memorized every code book, subscribes to every journal and forum, and really does come close to ?knowing it all?. (This?BTW?is definitely NOT me). This guy could probably sit through most formal education sessions without learning anything new but is ?forced? to because of the requirements.
On the other hand, you may have someone who takes the same courses every year because he simply can?t get the facts straight in his head. He couldn?t pass a tough exam, but he does get credit for the courses (as he should).
It?s a dilemma for which I have no answer other than perhaps the first guy should at least get some credit for passing selected exams. Maybe the amount of credit could be commensurate with the grade?nothing for just scraping through and up to a certain amount of credits for being in the top percentile.
Easy to say as I?m not the one who would have to keep track of this.
-- Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Well, Dave, Mark, William and Rich! since I’m the one that opened the can of worms, how 'bout we all go fishing while we’re at it . All fun aside, you all bring up very interesting points to this issue. I’m sure that using our “collective head”, we will come up with some pretty good ideas for the Ed. Committee to consider. My personal experience has been that, I personally gain much more from self study than I do from classroom type training because everyone learns at different levels. In a classroom there is to much distraction such as slow learners, faster learners, class clowns, the ooh, ooh, I know people, etc. I took a HI course once (classroom), and was horrified to find out the instructor was a math professor and had not a clue regarding HI. He read to us from books (while we read along) then gave intermittant tests. I felt completely robbed. I’m sure there are some great courses out there, but! I also ordered two videos some time ago, (1-electrical and 1-heating/cooling), and pardon my French, but they both s%&#ed. A lot of self study courses combine both video and reading and offer a test at the end that has to be submitted (some even proctored). These are what I believe should be recognized for CE.
Originally Posted By: jremas This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob W, As you know I took the NHIE a few months ago and I kind of assumed I would not get any credit for it. I recently checked our PA law concerning the requirements and it clearly states that the National organization that we belong to must require its members to
Quote:
"attend continuing professional education classes as an ongoing condition of membership".
When I saw the "attend" and "classes" part, I just a$%-u-med that I could not get credits for it.
Personally I believe we should get credit for it but it really does not matter because I attend so many other classes.
--
Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Our criteria for CE credits is a pretty liberal one. Gary Johnson thought of offering a class on business practices for the new inspector; you know… all the legal filing requirements, bookeeping practices, tax practices, etc. This is an area where we could all probably use some guidance. Yot, based upon our acceptable CE courses, it would not be approved for CE credits.
As to the nature of the training, we have an honor system. If there are no state requirements for actual attendance, it is okay IMO for an individual to continue his/her CE credits for NACHI in this manner. Sure, a classroom may be better, but a self-paced at-home course is also a great teaching methodology. Its used everyday in education at a variety of levels. Anyone remember the PBS series "Sunrise Semester"?
As to Bob Wills question, I dont think that the ACTUAL studying for an exam is a valid source of CE credits.
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe F wrote: “I dont think that the ACTUAL studying for an exam is a valid source of CE credits”. Does that mean you agree that watching a video should not count toward CEU’s ?
I agree that the studying part shouldn't count, only the end result, which would be the test results, which BTW, is a concrete way to verify you earned the CEU's. Example, I just completed a video/text course worth 16 hours continuing education credit for recertifying for radon testing in Pa. They want to see the document awarding me the 16 hour credit, not the fact that I even read or viewed the material!
Originally Posted By: gjohnson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I have been thinking about this issue. When I was getting my undergraduate degree in computer science I was already a Miscrosoft Cert Systems Engineer. When I first started school, the college gave me college credits for taking the test to become one even though I never had any formal training.
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
University of Maryland University College gives credits for what they call prior learning. They consider life experiences and work experience and determine a fair amount of credit. I personally think taking an exam such as NHIE and passing, shows that the person put at least some learning time into, so why not credit them for the test?
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
hi to all,
Gary & Dan, I think you losing site of theissue here you are both talking about prior acts being credited as part of an admitions policy, we are only talking about continuing education credits that meet our association rules on continuing education.
. All fun aside, you all bring up very interesting points to this issue. I’m sure that using our “collective head”, we will come up with some pretty good ideas for the Ed. Committee to consider. My personal experience has been that, I personally gain much more from self study than I do from classroom type training because everyone learns at different levels. In a classroom there is to much distraction such as slow learners, faster learners, class clowns, the ooh, ooh, I know people, etc. I took a HI course once (classroom), and was horrified to find out the instructor was a math professor and had not a clue regarding HI. He read to us from books (while we read along) then gave intermittant tests. I felt completely robbed. I’m sure there are some great courses out there, but! I also ordered two videos some time ago, (1-electrical and 1-heating/cooling), and pardon my French, but they both s%&