Wondering if I’m missing something, there is a GEC visible on the exterior of the house that exits from under the vinyl siding below the meter . But I can’t find the GEC in the service panel .
I assume its grounded in the meter but should there be a GEC from the grounding bus to the meter or does the neutral serve that purpose.
The conduit from the meter is PVC if that matters
( I know there’s other things wrong in the panel )
I believe you’re correct, Dennis.
What did you see that you thought was an issue.
The lack of a GEC coming into the box , and can I say its grounded if I can’t actually see where the conductor is going?
Do you have to say it is grounded in your report?
no , but my initial reaction was that its not so guess my head got stuck on proving it is lol
We can only see 2/3 of the panel.
I have to take something out of my brain to try to remember but I believe the GEC can be from the meter, the service disconnect panel board and I think somewhere else. But, I can’t remember that location. That is assuming everything else is done properly.
The GEC can land between the service point and the service equipment.
So the panel just bonded to the neutral doesn’t cut it ?
It does in my area. The GEC and Grounded Neutral are bonded at meter.
Chris is correct… I misunderstood what you had going on. If the GEC is in fact bonded to the neutral inside the meter enclosure correctly, then to prevent a parallel current paths the service panel and the meter enclosure should not be bonded using any other means such as a metal conduit or EGC. So what you got looks correct in that regard.
Simon
Could you please expand a little more on what you said. Prior to retiring from the craft 4 years ago I encountered a lot of metal masts and raceways for service conductors in the service areas of Electric Power Cooperatives were the neutral at the Service Head would be connected to a Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) which ran down to a bonding lug in the meter base enclosure and then out of the bottom of the meter base enclosure to the Driven Rod which was one of the Grounding Electrodes. The electrical utility service standard which required that was a legacy of the Rural Electrification Administration. Then the installation would have a separate GEC which ran from the neutral busbar in the panel to the water pipe out to the water main or the pit adapter in the well casing. In several electrical cooperative service areas that I worked in if you didn’t run the GEC to the premises side of the service point; just on the premises side of the utilities splices which connected the Service Drop to the Service Entry conductors; down to the driven rod electrode; the coop would decline to connect because it violated their service standard. I’m certainly not a Home Inspector but I was a Master Electrician before I retired. I never learned any code prohibition against having a metal service entry conduit nor against the GEC being connected to the neutral at those 2 separate points. That GEC was often in addition to the one that ran to the water pipe. I don’t know what they do with the newer plastic water piping but the last couple that I did that were plastic I would install the NEC required bonding conductor to any remaining interior metal water piping and a #2 bare Cu GEC to the public water line or the well casing. The Coop folks liked it but some of the local NEC AHJs didn’t like it at all. I got various kinds of flack for doing it that way but I would get the AHJ and the Coop’s engineer together and stand back and wait for the smoke to clear. I never had an AHJ order the #2 Cu removed once they had spoken to the Coop’s Engineer so I was happy. No other electrical utility ever asked for the connection at the drip loops but all of the Electrical Coop ones did. I guess you could say that the REA still lives on in the Electrical Cooperative service standard which they wrote so many years ago.
–
Tom Horne
Tom,
I think the way I phrased my prior post may sound confusing. This is how I understand it: A number of AHJ argue that the metal raceway between the meter socket and the service panel violates NEC 250.6. Running additional EGC between the meter socket and the service panel when the GEC is bonded to the neutral in the meter socket can violate 310.10(H) and is unnecessary because the bonding of the meter socket and the service panel is permitted by 250.92(B)(1) using the neutral conductor alone.
My electrician buddy got back to me and said it was good, I went out with him today and he showed me the same thing.
Morning, Mike.
Hope to find you well and in good spirits today.
I think what you are referring to is, Service Equipment Grounding.
An acceptable grounding electrode system would include [250-50]:
A: Underground metal piping electrically continuous for a minimum of 10 feet supplemented with ground rods.
B: Effectively grounded metal frame of a building.
C: Bare, galvanized, or other electrically conductive coating, reinforcing steel rods not smaller than 1/2 inch in diameter if the total length of the steel is not less than 20 feet.
D: Ground ring encircling the building or structure in direct contact with the earth at a depth below the earth’s surface of not less than 2 1/2 feet consisting of at least 20 feet of bare copper conductor not smaller than No. 2.
Neutral-to-Ground Connection - Section 250-24(a)(1)
If you can not see the GEC,it becomes a ‘limitation’ visually. No worries. BUT. Use a tool to measure the presence of ground. Three bulb receptacle tester or circuit analyzer.
Your assumption, “I assume its grounded in the meter but should there be a GEC from the grounding bus to the meter or does the neutral serve that purpose” can be answered here.
Since the neutral or ground conductor is a necessary part of the electrical path, ground/ed conductors carry electrical current under normal operating conditions. Grounding conductors provide an alternate path for the current to flow back to the source, rather than go through anyone touching a dangerous appliance or electrical box.
Hope that helps/helped/assisted your inquiry.
Best regards.
Robert Young
I recommend everyone watch the “advanced electrical course” on internachi with ‘the electrical guru’. He states that after 2008 if there’s copper water pipes, it MUST have a gec conductor within 5’ of entry, bonding the pipes to the panel, PLUS an additional GEC with ground rod, ufer, etc.
Also, If there is a metal sleeve connecting the panel and meter, it must have a metal bonding lug nut with bonding strap to the panel case. That is (I believe) to keep the sleeve from ever becoming energized. It must be bonded, not just a plastic lug nut.
I see this common in FL. From my understanding is that the ground and neutral wires are bonded at the main panel, so the neutral wire at the main panel then is connected at the meter with the grounding wire that leads to the earth.
So in that scenario, the GEC can come from either the meter or the panel, correct?
