Obama Test #1?


I didn’t vote for him, but I’m 100% behind him when it comes to this crap…

Just as 9/11 changed the shape of the Bush presidency, an attack of this type would change the Obama presidency.

Call me a progressive, but I would find it very unlikely that Barack Obama would go off half-cocked and invade a third-party sovereign nation that had no connection to the attack in retaliation to a terrorist attack on our shores. :wink:

Your recollection of history is lacking again.

Which third party sovereign nation are you speaking of

The sovereign nation that committed genocide on there own people
The sovereign nation that violated numerous UN sanction placed against them
The sovereign nation that repeatedly admitted to the development of nuclear weapons
The sovereign nation that gave an inventory to the UN, which listed the material they had in there possession that could build nuclear weapons

Heres a sample list of the known terrorist groups known to be in Iraq before the gulf war

****Led By
**Groups Known Active In Violence in Iraq
Mehdi Army militia
Muqtada al-Sadr the son of a well respected and revered Shia cleric killed by the Baathist regime.
Sayyid Riyadh Nouri heads the political wing

Shia Extremists led by this Shiite Cleric, the extremists are incredibly violent and now targeting anyone cooperating with the new government and the Coalition. The methods for propoganda are remarkably similar (suspiciously so) to Hamas and Hezzbollah in and around Israel, putting pressure on the population by bombings, shootings and guerilla attacks that disrupt work and kills innocents directly or when retaliation from the government creates collateral damage. The power base of the group is in Najaf. (source Fox News, MSNBC Online, Associated Press) however the group has some followers in al-Sadr City section of Baghdad (named after his father). Washington Post writer Jonathan Finer claims the al-Sadr family has been in a fight with the Badr family for generations and this fued fuels the violence in Iraq. 4
100s violently active, tens of thousands of members.
Badr Brigade****Ayotollah al-Sistani/
Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim
Linked to and well funded by Iran, is thought to be the “wet wing” of the enormous group the Shiite SCIRI (Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq) and led by Grand Ayotollah al-Sistani. The Washington Post wrie Jonatah Finer claims that the leader of the SRCRI (Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq), Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim heads the family which in turn provides the basic financial and political support for the Badr organization. The artricle also claims the Badr Brigade has been in a fight with the al-Sadr family for generations and it is this feud that fuels much of the violence in Iraq. 4up to 10,000 members, 100s actively violentTawhad and
Khalid bin Al Walid Brigade
(Changed name to
Tanzim Qa’idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn – QJBR)
a.k.a. al-Zarqawi Network
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi
(Killed on June 7, 2006 reports surfaced by June 13, 2006 that he had been replaced by
Abu Hamza Al Muhajer)
5 who was in turn killed a week later, and replaced by Mansur al-Mashhadani who was also reported to have been killed in June 2006 timeframe) Virulent anti-Shia extremists led by a Palestinian-Jordanian petty criminal who has risen to power based upon his fanatical hatred and execution of Shia Muslims. Zarqawi is linked to al-Qaeda and several major bombings and assasinations in Iraq. Like the al-Sadr followers, the group also has taken and beheaded hostages when their demands have not been met. Links between the Jordanian Abu al-Zarqawi and al-Qaeda, group claimed several bombings in Iraq and on July 18, 2004, offered the equivalent of a $280,000 reward for the killing of Prime Minister Alwai, the leader of the Interim Iraqi Government. The attacks by QJBR are too numerous to report, with almost daily activity leading to the elections of the preliminary Iraqi government and until the U.S. Troop Surge in 2007 began to have its effects. The death of al-Zarqawi diminished the organization’s effectiveness and his two immediate replacements have also been killed.
100s - 1000s
Ansar al-Islam
Ansar al-Islam is a radical Islamist group of Iraqi Kurds and Arabs who have vowed to establish an independent Islamic state in Iraq. It was formed in December 2001 and is closely allied with al-Qaida. Some of its members trained in al-Qaida camps in Afghanistan, and the group provided safehaven to al-Qaida fighters before Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Since OIF, it has been one of the leading groups engaged in anti- Coalition attacks. (Ansar al-Islam was designated on 20 February 2003, under E.O. 13224. The UNSCR 1267 Committee designated Ansar al-Islam pursuant to UNSCRs 1267, 1390, and 1455 on 27 February 2003.) First designated in March 2004. (source 2003 Patterns of Global Terrorism, U.S. Department of State). Another group has emerged attempting to combine all the Iraqi insurgents, Ansar Al Sunnah. It is not clear whether this is just an expansion of Ansar Al Islam.
Osama Bin Laden
Abu-Muhammad Ablay, a member of the organization took credit for a car bombing against Italian units in Iraq on 12 November 2003, in al-Nasiriyah, Iraq. The attack killed 19 Italians and 13 Iraqis. 80 others wounded (source 2003 Patterns of Global Terrorism, U.S. Department of State). Al-Zarqawi’s QJBR (see above) boasts of links and support from Al-Qaeda as well. Bin Laden has taken credit for most major terrorist attacks claiming allegiance from most of the Sunni oriented (but not limited to) organizations in the world.
The MEK philosophy mixes Marxism and Islam. Formed in the 1960s, the organization was expelled from Iran after the Islamic Revolution in 1979, and its primary support now comes from the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein. Its history is studded with anti-Western attacks as well as terrorist attacks on the interests of the clerical regime in Iran and abroad. The MEK now advocates a secular Iranian regime. Most of the fighters are organized in the MEK’s National Liberation Army (NLA). (source 2003 Patterns of Global Terrorism, U.S. Department of State)1000-2000

Groups Who Supposedly Have Put Down Their Arms But Whose Members May Be Active
Kurdish Worker’s Party (PKK)

Founded in 1974 as a Marxist-Leninist insurgent group primarily composed of Turkish Kurds. The group’s goal has been to establish an independent Kurdish state in southeastern Turkey, where the population is predominantly Kurdish. In the early 1990s, the PKK moved beyond rural-based insurgent activities to include urban terrorism. Turkish authorities captured Chairman Abdullah Ocalan in Kenya in early 1999; the Turkish State Security Court subsequently sentenced him to death. In August 1999, Ocalan announced a “peace initiative,” ordering members to refrain from violence and requesting dialogue with Ankara on Kurdish issues. At a PKK Congress in January 2000, members supported Ocalan’s initiative and claimed the group now would use only political means to achieve its new goal, improved rights for Kurds in Turkey. (source 2003 Patterns of Global Terrorism, U.S. Department of State)

Groups of which Members May Attack but Rarely Claim Responsibility
Abu Nidal Organization
Abu Nidal (deceased)
Since the death of Nidal in Iraq, it is not clear if his followers have disbanded or simply joined other radical Islamic groups in Iraq
Al-Istikhbarat al-Askariyya (Military Intelligence)Brigadier General Abdel Qadar Salman Khamis
The main function of Military Intelligence is to ensure the loyalty of the Iraqi Armed Forces. It is also involved in the gathering of military intelligence and the detection of enemy infiltration of the armed forces. Istikhbarat has the power to eliminate any domestic opponents. (Source Iraqi News Online)4,000-6,000
Ashbal Saddam?
Ashbal Saddam is a paramilitary unit comprised wholly of children (aged 10-15). The organization was formed when the Baath regime’s hold on power faltered subsequently after the Persian Gulf War. In the event of war, their responsibilities would have been the setting up roadblocks, conducting ambushes, sniper assualts, sabotage and psychological warfare operations. The Ashbal Saddam principly serves as a feeder program to the Fedayeen Saddam (Saddam’s Men of Sacrifice). The Fedayeen Saddam is a paramilitary internal security service organization that is employed in order to keep control of the Iraqi populace.8,000
Fedayeen Saddam
“Saddam’s Men of Sacrifice”? (Was led by Qusay Hussein who is now deceased
and Lt. Gen. Mezahem Saab al Hassan al Tikriti)The Fedayeen Saddam was comprised of young and politically reliable paramilitary soldiers that were leveraged against perceived domestic agitators and opponents of the Al-Baath regime. The unit reported to the Presidential Palace, rather than through the army command, and was also responsible for conducting patrols and anti-smuggling duties.
(Source Iraqi News Online)
Hamas (Islamic Resistance Movement)

While Hamas is typically an attacker of Israelis and those Muslims working with Israelis, numerous reports of Hamas members flocking to Iraq to fight the infidels have been confirmed, especially those identified with Izz al-Din al-Qassam Forces. (MILNET)

HAMAS was formed in late 1987 as an outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood and has become Fatah’s principal political rival in the occupied territories. Various elements of HA-KAS have used both political and violent means, including terrorism, to pursue the goal of establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel. HAMAS is loosely structured, with some elements working openly through mosques and social service institutions to recruit members, raise money, organize activities, and distribute propaganda. Militant elements of HAMAS, operating clandestinely, have advocated and used violence to advance their goals. HAMAS’s strength is concentrated in the Gaza Strip and a few areas of the West Bank. It has also engaged in peaceful political activity, such as running candidates in West Bank chamber of commerce elections. (source 2003 Patterns of Global Terrorism, U.S. Department of State)10s of thousands supporters, hardcore membership count in not known.

Thought to have flocked to Iraq to fight the coalition, some reports indicate they are providing bomb making and organization where needed. MILNET

Radical Shia group formed in Lebanon; dedicated to creation of Iranian-style Islamic republic in Lebanon and removal of all non-Islamic influences from area. Strongly anti-West and anti-Israel. Closely allied with, and often directed by, Iran, but may have conducted rogue operations that were not approved by Tehran. (source 2003 Patterns of Global Terrorism, U.S. Department of State)1-2,000
Jihaz al-Mukhabarat al-Amma (Iraqi Intelligence Service)Brigadier General Majid Hasan al-Majid
Mukhabarat was responsible for watching the other police networks and controlling the activities of state institutions and the armed forces. Mukhabarat activities included: intelligence gathering and processing, weapons testing and development, assassinations and sabotage, propaganda and psychological warfare, interrogation of suspects, detecting and countering foreign agents, and training of agents for clandestine operations abroad. Mukhabarat was believed to be responsible for the assassinations of opponents abroad (including Ayatollah Mehdi Al Hakim in Sudan in January 1988 and Dr Ayad Habashi in Rome in October 1986), links with terrorist organizations, money laundering and arms purchases. Mukhabarat, on Saddam Hussein’s orders, also murdered several secret service chiefs, including Nazim Kzar, Fadhil Barak and Intelligence Chief Rafa Daham Mujawwal Al-Tikriti. Its Unit 999 also is thought to have been a main contact to Al Qaeda and Palestines on how to use chemical and biological weapons (Source Iraqi News Online)
Saddam’s Former Republican Guard
? (Was led by Qusay Hussein who is now deceased
and Lt. Gen. Mezahem Saab al Hassan al Tikriti)The Republican Guard began its life in the early 1980s as a force that was tasked with the protection of Saddam Hussein’s regime. The organization served as the core around which an elite offensive force was built and it was used dramatically during the war with Iran. The Republican Guard forces were much better trained and equipped than the Regular Army. All of the RGFC troops were volunteers rather than conscripts. They were also much better paid and supported. The elite corps was comprised of infantry, mechanized and motorized infantry, and armored divisions. The RGFC was subordinate to the State Special Security Apparatus, and not to the Defense Ministry. When Gulf War II began, the seemed to melt away into the population and most likely many joined with radical insurgents near their home towns. (Source Iraqi News Online)50,000-60,000Saddam’s Former
Special Republican Guard
? (Was led by Qusay Hussein who is now deceased)The Special Republican Guard were responsible for personal protection of Saddam Hussein. The elite unit was also used as an emergency response force in case of a rebellion or a coup. Most remained in Baghdad until the popular uprising in the city ended Saddam’s rule and their whereabouts are not known. Like the Rep. Guard, they probably melted into the population and headed home, perhaps to join insurgents there. (Source Iraqi News Online)12,000Former Members of Organizations in Iraq prior to the war.
A large number of government organizations in Iraq were devoted to watching for subversion amongst the Iraqi people, and remarkably for each one there was also a group watching them.

No, I was talking about Iraq. :smiley:

next time you talk about Iraq try including some facts with the rant. oh that’s right, you don’t need no stinkin facts to mess up your opinions

Facts, truth it makes no difference, once we’re out of Iraq it is all relative. :smiley:

So it’s O.K. to invade Pakistan, as long as we’re out of Iraq. :roll:

Chances of us preemptively invading a country with nuclear capability is slim & none. :wink:

"Call me a progressive, but I would find it very unlikely that Barack Obama would go off half-cocked and invade a third-party sovereign nation that had no connection to the attack in retaliation to a terrorist attack on our shores."

You’re right. He will sit down and talk with the terrorists. And talk. And talk. And talk. and . . . . .
If you believe anything else I would not call you ‘progressive’. ‘Damned fool’ heads the list, but ‘progressive’ is definately off the list.

Yes, history is not going to be very forgiving on our decision to preemptively invade Iraq, NOW had Bush invaded Saudi Arabia, well then that might have been a different story. :smiley:

I’ll look into seeing if we can have JB(s) moved to the not for everyone section permanently. :mrgreen:

There you go again Michael,…clouding the issue with facts. (lol)

Obama’s people have already been talking to terrorist groups like Hamas way before the election…oh yeah,…the media forgot to print that.