Nick are they a vendor?
Dear Rick, currently I am in the process of Patenting a procedure to pound sand. At this time it has been decided that you may use this procedure without paying the customary licensing fee.
Now that’s funny!!!
It appears that they are not members of NACHI according to their website.
Professional Memberships/Affiliations http://www.homesafeinspection.com/images/M_images/pdf_button.png http://www.homesafeinspection.com/images/M_images/printButton.png http://www.homesafeinspection.com/images/M_images/emailButton.png Peng Lee, Vice President/Chief Technology Officer
Memberships
International Electricians and Electronics Engineers Association
Acoustical Society of America
Entomological Society of America
National Association of Mold Professionals
Mississippi Pest Control Association
National Pest Management Association
National Society for Non-Destructive Testing
Licenses/Certifications
Mississippi Home Inspector Regulatory Board #0196
Mississippi Department of Agriculture & Commerce Bureau of Plant Industry #2518
**Gene Bramlett, Director of Inspector Training **
Memberships
National Association of Home Inspectors (Associate)
Housing Inspection Foundation (HIF)
Environmental Solutions Association (ESA)
Licenses/Certifications
Mississippi Home Inspector Regulatory Board #0206
Certified Mold Inspector (ESA)
Certified Mold Assessor (ESA)
Registered Home Inspector (HIF)
**Robbie Enfinger, Inspector **
Licenses/Certifications
Mississippi Home Inspector Regulatory Board #0228-NH (New Home Certified)
Mississippi Board of Contractors #R06885
International Code Council for Residential Buildings
HomeSafe Advanced Training Certification #118
Just another reason not to belong to any of the above associations. If they allow a company like Home Safe to belong to their organization then they will allow any unethical person to join.
From the US patent office website (emphasis mine)
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#whatpat
From Home Safe web site
http://www.homesafeinspection.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=287&Itemid=107
From US patent office
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=7,445,377&OS=7,445,377&RS=7,445,377
In other words, someone can not patent a common process or procedure already in use. It would be akin to me applying for a patent on how to change a car tire. I suspect that most if not all IR techs use similar procedures due to simple nature of the task. How many ways can you point or hold the IR camera and document the findings. I thought the whole concept of having a patent on this was nebulous from the beginning.
ROTFLMAO!!!
Although use of your procedure is free, do we still have to notify you when told to use aforementioned procedure when commanded to… as in “Go pound sand!!”?
Thanking you in advance for your response!
Regards,
One who must pound said sand regularly
anybody look those patent numbers up?
Yes.
see post 44
missed that one. Thanks
HomeSafe’s approved patents are available for public review at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office’s Web site. You may search for them by patent number at http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm. The patent numbers are 7,369,955, 7,445,377, 7,385,483, 7,434,990, 7,271,706 and 7,429,928. Simply enter any one of those numbers in the search field, and you will be taken to the relevant section of the USPTO Web site containing the full text of the approved patents and individual claims.
Additionally, anyone who would like more information is welcome to contact HomeSafe at (866) 327-7233. As communications director, I’m not qualified to discuss all the technical details of the patented procedures or acoustic technologies. I posted my earlier message simply to clarify that HomeSafe does not claim to hold patents on any IR camera or IR technology, only on certain procedures and acoustic technologies.
I don’t have an IR camera but would like to help everyone out with this issue since I have some experience with patents.
With a quick look, those patents/processes all seem to involve termite inspections. Which patent number has a method/process for IR inspections that does not involve termites?
You would also be best served to explain on this board or in your emails to inspectors the following:
The exact process and patent number that covers the following:
Turning on the hvac system (if not already running at correct temp).
Walking around the house recording images with an IR camera.
Sending certain pictures to a client with information included that does not contain any termite evaluations or treatment recommendations.
Also, please show the date of the patent application that indicates it was submitted as new information not already known and used by those familiar with the industry.
Also, for those inspectors using the IR camera for termite inspections, please show them the process patent that you claim covers what they do, step by step.
I would like the details on the rest of your post - although I also do not use an IR camera at this time.
As far as the quoted, see post 44
I wonder if anyone currently using IR was using it for HI prior to 2004?
Also, Bruce, is it common for it to take 4 years from date filed to patent issued?
Has anyone on the NACHI legal team looked at this?
Seems that if members are being asked for $$ to use IR and more and more are using IR, it would probably be in the best interests of the membership (and the HI industry as a whole) to lay this to rest.
JMO
Yes I know of several companies using IR for property moisture inspections prior to 2004 (including one large company that I do some consulting for) also FLIR has been promoting IR to home inspectors since at least 2001.
Regards
Gerry
It gets better.
I made the mistake of taking their training class. They were affiliated with ITA/Kaplan which has a local office. When I contacted them with an intitial inquiry, after miraculously deciding to pursue using IR despite the fact that I had never heard of Homesafe before researching and seeing a post from them here and then hearing about them from the ITA people, they kept putting off the class at the local ITA facility. Then they scheduled a time and I signed up. Then they canceled the time - BUT they offered to go ahead and come train me. (first warning sign I missed.)
I already have a Mechanical Engineering degree and had many heat transfer classes and was very familiar with the concept, the information was basically review. In fact, I completed their 4 day course in two and aced their test. Then their trainer left a day and half early. It was a basic IR theory course, oh and we walked around and looked at things in my house with the camera. There was no specific process or proceedure taught, no report writing process, no report software.
They did also show me the acoustic termite thing - they required it be included in the training even though I had no use for it as I am not licensed to do anything with termites by the state. It is actually pretty cool and while I vehemently oppose this ridiculous IR for home inspection patent idea, I think they can probably patent the acoustic thing. But I never used it and don’t know enough about termites to say for sure.
I also decided to lease one of their cameras. My original reasoning was that I was unsure about the durability of the equipment and didn’t want to buy an expensive camera and have it break. Their lease included a 48 hour guarentee of replacement in the event of ANYTHING happening to the equipment. They basically rebadge and lease out a Mikron 7815. I did have to take advantage of the guarentee in the first 60 days as the first camera screen hinge broke. I saw it as a straight deductible business expense and it allowed me to get experience with what was inportant to compare the cameras, while waiting for prices to conitue to come down. I have no complaints about the leasing relationship, until now
I recently decided to break my lease and buy my own cameras. I was having some problems with their camera and every time I contacted them they passed me off to the Mikron people, they did not seem to have any technical knowledge of the Mikron equipment. Unfortunately the Mikron engineer did not really resolve my issues and Homesafe for some reason did not seem eager to replace the unit. Which was okay as I had already decided to make a change, so I never pushed to have a new unit sent. When I told them that I was paying the contractual penalty and breaking the lease, they responded that they would be contacting me about the Patent licensing. But I have not received my letter yet. I was waiting for the letterr to post something publicly.
I have spoken with other inspectors that have trained through the ITA/Homesafe class and it seems that they, as was my experience, conveniently fail to mention anything about the licensing fees until AFTER you pay for and COMPLETE the training class. Then they hit you up. I guess maybe I need to contact Texas A&M about any licensing fees I might owe for actually using my engineering degree. I basically feel that they do an unethical and shady bait and switch routine. Offer an IR training class and then try to hit you up for licensing.
The use of IR for Home inspection is an obvious extension of its use in industry. If you read their patents they try to patent multiple different applications. With the exception of their acoustic technology, it is all technology that they did not invent - Infrared and Indoor air quality testing equipment - used in obvious ways in the resisdential field. The processes they describe is obvious for the use of the IR technology. Create temprature differential, use camera, interprete images results.
I really don’t understand how they could actually get these patents. I guess that the US Patnet office is not expert in these matters so you can get such things through with enough persistence. Research I have done says that “obvious applications” are grounds for arguing patents.
As I said, I decided to use IR before I ever heard of Homesafe and actually sought them out as a potential training source. They will probably come after me as an example to enforce their patent - for the simple reason that I took their training class and leased a camera from them for a time. Despite the fact that their trainer had no experience with homes in my area and that I had to develop and intergrate my own process to use the IR in my inspections. They claim to teach a process, yet they did not for me. I have had one of their other trainees contact me and come “ride along” with me for several days to “learn” how to use the camera in actual home inspection situations and to see the process I use during the inspection. This inspector paid to fly to Dallas, stay in a hotel for three nights and miss business to learn with me for two days. Maybe I should hurry up and file a patent for my training and charge him.
I do think that Nick and NACHI and other IR trainers and Manufacturees should get involved with this. They have obviously spent a lot of money to push all of these patents through. I’m sure they will spend some more to try and enforce them. We need to fight them.
Hmmm, wonder if FLIR would be interested in learning of these IR patents that may steer some away from using IR for fear of paying a monthly fee and / or potential litigation, meritorious or not.
Is this the Technical word for there Termite finder. :shock: