Permanent VS Temporary Jack

1

This home had some Posts in the crawlspace area. Two of them were these square style posts which I don’t think I’ve ever seen. The other one behind was a steel post, looked to be 3" and was NOT telescoping so I wasn’t too worried about that one. I’ve just never seen this style before. Does it appear to be temporary or permanent to anybody? No labels to verify usage. Pretty wet crawlspace so going to mention that they should be painted regularly. I did browse previous posts to try and prevent redundancy but felt like I needed to post. The posts here are not anchored at top or bottom and concrete piers are behind them so it looks like these were probably added for additional support on older home. Sorry for blurry pic didn’t realize it at the time.

IMG-5406
IMG-54061125×1500 193 KB

IMG-5407
IMG-54071125×1500 411 KB

IMG-5408
IMG-54081125×1500 294 KB

b

2

Are they bolted in both ends - permanent installation. If not, temporary. They do look homemade though. Look closely at the welds.

2 Likes
3

Ok wouldn’t surprise me. This home is in the country area that everything is home owner builds. Jack of all trades master of none type stuff.

4

The reason for looking at the welds is they rust first on home made stuff. Commercial stuff has a better finish/protection of the welds due to their paint process. Your photos tend to show rust at the welds.

2 Likes
5

Great to know thanks

6

Yep, agree with that. Top plate looks like it was cut free hand with a torch also.

2 Likes
7

So a “Jack of All Trades” installed a “Jack of Many functions” and you (we) don’t know “Jack” about it!

With these things it kind of falls into two categories:

Questionable and not performing normally - sagging, sloping floor, skewed door frames or other problems - recommend “further evaluation” or your favorite similar comment.

Questionable and IS performing properly (an engineer once told me this is “performing but not conforming” which is a great/funny little saying) - NO sagging or other problems to note. I personally explain that it’s “unorthodox”, “not a standard installation”, “not recognized building practices”, or how ever else you want to say it’s not right but is working. The recommendation (and this is the tough part with something that IS working) is usually to verify proper design/permitting or something along those lings. “Wrong but working” is one of the tough things in this biz. I can argue either side of that all day long.

4 Likes
8

Per the NACHI SOP, you’re done right there. If you think about it, we really complicate things for ourselves but I could not image not reporting on that Jack in some fashion.

2 Likes
9

Yeah this is really the core of this business - at face value it’s easy (is is performing?) but we’d all be sued out of business if we really only held things to that standard. LOL… with electrical the standard would basically be, “Is the house currently on fire?”

4 Likes
10

Here is a crawlspace from yesterday. New construction. Pre-drywall inspection.

I was surprised to see jack posts ( aka “lally columns”) under the laminated beams holding up the large home above. The top and bottom plates were thin guage steel. Diameter appeared to be 3" or less. These are multi-piece posts with a screw adjustment. One pipe telescopes within the larger pipe to index to different lengths, with fine adjustment done with the screw head.
I would consider these temporary jack posts, but I thought it would be good to run it by you guys for a second opinion. Concrete footings were present under the posts. But there were no identifying stickers to indicate ICC or BOCA compliance, though I understand that these stickers are sometimes removed.
There were no fasteners at the top or bottom plates though.

IMG_2050
IMG_20501920×1440 319 KB

IMG_2051
IMG_20511920×1440 339 KB

IMG_2054
IMG_20541920×1440 205 KB

IMG_2065
IMG_20651920×1440 276 KB

1 Like
11

Hey Bert,

Generally, I would report on any telescopic type steel column. Those are the two-piece type. Typically, they have one section that is smaller diameter and inserts into a large diameter section, then is secured with fasteners such as bolts. Typically, the smaller material is under 3 inches in diameter. They typically are considered temporary use.

There’s another type of adjustable steel columns. Most I’m familiar with are one piece with one end having a fixed plate, the other having a screw adjustable plate. They are usually at minimum 3 inches in diameter.

IRC is pretty straight forward:

R407.3 Structural requirements.

The columns shall be restrained to prevent lateral displacement at the bottom end. Wood columns shall be not less in nominal size than 4 inches by 4 inches (102 mm by 102 mm). Steel columns shall be not less than 3-inch-diameter (76 mm) Schedule 40 pipe manufactured in accordance with ASTM A 53 Grade B or approved equivalent.

Exception: In Seismic Design Categories A, B and C, columns not more than 48 inches (1219 mm) in height on a pier or footing are exempt from the bottom end lateral displacement requirement within under-floor areas enclosed by a continuous foundation

But, if I remember correctly, I think you said your local area adopted IBC correct? I find that odd in itself. So, IBC for structural steel varies from IRC. You have CHAPTER 22 STEEL - 2024 INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE (IBC) and then you have 2021 International Building Code (IBC) - CHAPTER 7 FIRE AND SMOKE PROTECTION FEATURES - 722.5.1 Structural steel columns. for reference.

There are some adjustable steel column manufactures that state they have IRC/IBC approved products such as here for example: Adjustable Length Steel Columns - Tiger Brand Jack-Post

At minimum for an adjustable steel column type, I’d look for 3-inch minimum diameter, one piece, the bottom screw is disabled or encased, top plate fastened, and an apparent adequate footing.

3 Likes
12

Looks like a similar thread here! Some good advice in the other thread, I’ll link it:
Adjustable foundation posts - General Inspection Topics / General Inspection Discussion - InterNACHI®️ Forum

3 Likes
13

The thin top plate and telescoping holes are a good indicator that it is not intended for permanent use, so I agree with you.

2 Likes
14

For some reason, I think Bert was/is playing some of the “youngins” here. Most all of us would know those as “temporary” and call them out.

Wonder what he’s up to? :thinking: I’m pretty sure he knows what he’s doing. :wink:

1 Like