Originally Posted By: chorne
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/100_0165.jpg ]
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/100_0165.jpg ]
Originally Posted By: chorne
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Hi all,
Sorry I need to enlarge, it’s hard to see.
I will give it a whirl
Carla
Originally Posted By: jpope
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Ahh, the old Bull Dog panel systems. I’ve run across these, are you surprised
?Other than outdated and the lack of replacement parts, I haven't heard much about poor performance or inherent problems.
I have sent "my electrician" out to these on a few occasions and his response to me was simply "If there aren't any obvious defects, leave 'em alone."
The majority of these still in existence (in my experience) is in commercial applications.
--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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I’ve seen several Pushmatic panels here and many in Northern VA. I’m not aware of any inherent issues (like FPE or Zinsco), but replacement breakers are almost impossible to find. I know an electrician who keeps the breakers for spares whenever he does a panel upgrade.
Originally Posted By: lungar
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Hi! Jeff;
I had pushmatic in my home untill I upgraded a short time ago too 200amp. No trouble with them, If you need new breakers home depot
carries them ,at least up here on long island.
Len
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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HI all,
the old pushmatics are as previously stated pretty reliable, but can be an issue with spares, but there appears to be another issue with the Ground and neutrals on the sub panel unless I'm seeing the picture wrong.
Comments ??
regards
Gerry
--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: Peter Foxe Smothers
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There is no floating netural on the sub. Are there dead frount covers and doors for the panels?
Foxe Smothers
Originally Posted By: chorne
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Thanks guys,
the covers are off so that you can see inside.
Gerry, what are your thoughts?
Carla
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Carla,
I cant see the picture well enough (I'm on my laptop) but here are my issues I may be wrong, but:
Is the neutral isolated from the grounds ?
Are the grounds and neutrals on the same bus (it looks like it ) ?
Is the ground bonded to the panel ?
Looks like all the neutrals are under one lug, and all the grounds under another ??
Like I say I'm on a real small screen I was hoping someone else would comment on it.
regards
Gerry
--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Here is a ligthened photo with increased contrast.
The main thing with the Bulldog Pushamatics is being obsolete and parts availability. Some areas still have NEW old stock breakers, don't re-use old breakers unless they have been tested as being good (don't know if anyone does that).
--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: cradan
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We see the Pushmatics fairly commonly on some of the apartment and multi-units we inspect, primarily in and near the city. Don’t hold me to this (I haven’t researched Bulldog, or their design and installation practices), but seems like we’ve seen them most commonly on buildings constructed in the mid- to late- 1950’s, some early 1960’s. They’re pretty simple to operate (re-set), not quite fool-proof, but almost dummy-proof. I’m guessing they were popular in that period (and probably state-of-the-art) for that reason. They didn’t want to give the renters and tenants anything too complex to control…
–
Chris
http://www.inspect4me.com
Chicago Illinois Home Inspections
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Excellent eyes on the ‘sub’ panel.
What about the grounding/bonding of the 'main' panel?
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all,
I wish I had 3D vision, on this one and a bigger screen, there are a few areas here that look odd, it even looks like some arcing/overheating damage on one or two of the neutrals on the "main" panel, as I said before I'm on my sub notebook tonight and cant see the darned thing.
Whats the verdict Mike, Jerry ??
Regards
Gerry
--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Gerry,
Haven't looked at it, just playing with the photos for you guys.
Here are some larger views.
[ Image: smaller panel to left ]
[ Image: larger panel to right ]
[ Image: top half of larger panel ]
[ Image: bottom half of larger panel ]
--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Okay Gerry, I will check in on this one. But keep in mind that ya really need to be looking at the panel up-close-and-personal, and can’t really make a call just from pics.
The service entrance cable to the right of the main service panel disconnect/breaker might have some insulation damage, but that is very hard to tell from that pic.
I agree with Peter that it looks like the sub-panel does not have the neutral and ground separated (floating neutral) ... as they should. Even though the smaller panel on the left is connected off the lugs in the larger service panel, it is after the main service disconnect (breaker at the top of the larger service panel). So the smaller panel on the left does appear to be a sub-panel which should have a floating neutral.
Also, that sub-panel should have been fed from a breaker in the service panel. Even though the sub-panel feeders have short circuit protection from the MD and overcurrent protection from the breaker in the sub-panel, the sub-panel feeders are suppose to have the overcurrent protection at the point of supply ... which would be in the larger service panel (IRC E3605.5 or NEC 240.21 as a guide).
It should also be verified that the back-fed main breaker in the sub-panel is held down by retainer clips (as appears to have been done at the larger service panel) ... without them the breaker could come out energized, which is a real shock hazard. I also see multiple wires entering the panels with single knockout clamps, and some of the wiring looks pretty old which should be looked at carefully.
Just my 2-nickels ... 
P.S. Carla ... Whats the size of the main breakers and feeder wires for the service panel and sub-panel, and did ya check any of the other things?
--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all,
Nice job Rob, I should be able to see the pics myself in about an hour when I've finished re-loading my PC for the 3rd time !!
Looks like Carla made the correct call about further evaluation.
regards
Gerry
--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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“Okay Gerry, I will check in on this one. But keep in mind that ya really need to be looking at the panel up-close-and-personal, and can’t really make a call just from pics.”
Robert make a great point.
Mine and other opinions are made from far, far away.
"up-close-and-personal" is the only way.
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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I should clarify one thing that may not be obvious to some. The smaller panel on the left is indeed a sub-panel (“load side lighting and appliance panelboard” for Jerry … LOL), even though the feeders for the smaller panel are connected to lugs at the top of the larger service panel main buss.
From what I see, the larger service panel is fed from service entrance cables connected to the main breaker at the top, which is then attached to the main buss. So the entire main buss, including the lugs at the top, are after the main breaker/disconnect ("back-fed" panel). The smaller panel is then supplied after the main service breaker/disconnect, and is therefore a "sub-panel" where the neutral and ground should be separate (floating neutral).
Okay ... maybe two things ... I am also "betting the ranch" that the sub-panel feeder/breaker rating is lower than the rating of the main service panel breaker ... otherwise the sub-panel feeder wire would have overcurrent protection at the supply point ... 
Just my opinion and 2-nickles ... looking from far, far away ...
--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Pushmatic…ahhh…nothing wrong with them. Parts availability here is rather easy but quite expensive. Although a HI would not be working in these panels (
At least I hope not)…they can be quite dangerous to work in…if one does not take caution and utilize insulated tools. I can attest to this first hand Otherwise, and I won't get into all the other issues found in these pics purely because you guys have that covered, I have no info about pushmatic panels or breakers being defective.
--
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln
Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Ran into my first pushmatic panel yesterday. Looked in real good condition though with no obvious defects. I just stated that replacement breakers are more expensive as a comment.
–
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC
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