Not any more they don’t. 
Wanna buy a Ford Pinto?
As for buying a house with PB pipe, why not? It can all be replaced in most houses here in a day or two with copper or PEX.
But the client should be made well aware that PB pipe is installed in the house and pointed to the appropriate web pages and or to a plumber so they can make an informed decision.
They have been. The site I found was the Canadian Standards site and appeared updated as of 2002. If you have info that they changed this position, I would appreciate it.
This appeared to be current (At least as of Feb 2002 - the most recent date I saw on the page)…
Check to see if the CSA mark and CSA standard number “B 137.8” is on the pipe. The following marking should also be on the piping:
I do not inspect to any Canadian codes here Joseph.
As far as I know PB2110 is no longer allowed in resedential water piping.
The pinto offer still stands.
I dont follow the canadian codes either, but it is a jursidiction that appears to specifically allow/approve of it.
I do not know of anywhere it is still used…and thanks for the offer!
My house is plumbed with PB pipe Joeseph, it is not that big a deal.
Many homes still have the PB with copper crimp rings and buyers do not seem to care. I always recommend they consult a plumber and research further. I can not recommend replacement until I see a failure or learn of multiple cases involving the copper crimps. I do report that higher chlorine levels could cause deterioration of the pipe.
Then it is too late.
Hi to all,
Personally I agree with Joe, the problems with PB are well known and well documented. Failures are common to both the jointing system and the piping.
Funnily enough a friend of mine called me 2 weeks ago to ask if I could come look at his plumbing as he had just had a major leak through his kitchen ceiling, yep you guessed it mid 90’s PB piping and it had failed in the middle of a pipe section not at a joint (the joints looked OK).
I concider not pointing out that PB may need complete replacement adding hugely to your liabilities.
Regards
Gerry
Where’d you see that at?
PB 2110 is the main culprit.
I was at a training class several years ago where the house had PB. As the instructor pointed at the PB, he said, “PB can look fine from the outside. However, it deteriorates from the inside and can fail at any time.” Guess what happened at that exact moment. A videotape would have been wonderful.
That is true of lots of piping RR, that is why plumbers all have shiny new trucks.
Copper pipes do last forever you know, and the do not respond well to chemicals.
You must have a different variety of plumbers there than we have here. Not a single one has a shiny new truck.
Copper reacts very well to the chemicals in our San Diego water, but the PEX is even better.
In our part of the country(mid-atlantic) I always inform the client of the potential problems with PB tubing, where they can obtain more information, and only put it down as a defect if I see a leak.
John
http://www.wvbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=2580292
*Attorney Kirk Levy says the potential danger of buying a home with Quest pipe can be avoided.
**He says it’s critical to **get a reputable real estate agent, and **always get a home inspection *by someone who’s trusted.
What good is the Inspection if the Home Inspector does not believe PB to be deficient?
Good question.
As a home inspector I have always tryed to educate my clients and realtors and anyone else present at inspection time. I feel this is part of our duty as inspectors, also to make them aware of any potential problems and hazards that may exist.Though I do not believe all PB is defective, I make everyone aware of the Potential of failures at any time. This is my comment on PB, my summary of defects warns clients that the summary may not contain all of the information that they need to determine their decision to purchase and that they should read through the full report. The report always contains pictures of the said PB. Comment as follows;The system includes polybutylene water pipes, commonly referred to as PB, that have been alleged to be defective, and could be replaced at no cost to the consumer. They were installed in homes between 1978 and 1995. They are easily recognizable as a flexible, gray, blue, or black plastic, which include metal fittings that are connected by aluminum or copper bands. However, they should not be confused with PVC pipe, which is white and rigid and commonly used for irrigation. You can learn more about these pipes on the Web at www.pbpipe.com.Though at this time there appears to be no visible leakage at any of the visible/accessible areas, these systems have been know to fail at any time, without warning. For peace of mind you may consider upgrading to a more known reliable system of plumbing. Any system upgrade of this type should be evaluated by a licensed plumber.
I also educate my clients on the potential hazard of the most dangerous piece of equipment in any home, The Water Heater. This system has the Potential of becoming a missle if not properly maintained and cared for. Do you put this down as a defect? I thank not, but you had better educate them of the water heaters Potential.
If educating my clients makes me a bad inspector then I’ve wasted the last 7 years doing this and in some eyes a bad inspector I may be.Keep in mind it’s not a question of will you be sued, but rather when you will be sued. Inspect Your Best and you will sleep well.
I will respectfully disagree on the water heater being the most dangerous piece of equipment in any home.
I vote for the gas-fired furnace simply because out here it is located in the attic or an interior utility closet whereas the water heater is typically located in the garage or an exterior utility closet. So the fumes from the furnace can overcome and kill a lot easier than the water heater. Although there are about 50 water heater explosions each year in the United States (one per state, although I suspect California with 37 million people has more than North Dakota with 370,000 people), the likelihood of dieing from a water heater explosion is virtually nil. In fact, I’ve never heard of anyone being killed from a water heater explosion. However, I have heard and read of many, many, many people being seriously injured or killed from carbon monoxide fumes from the furnace.
Anyone else with opinions on the most dangerous piece equipment in any home? Perhaps the car, since every time we get in it and pull out of our driveway, I think I read where we have a 1 in 50,000 chance of getting into a car accident, creating property damage, psychological damage, injury, and/or death. Technically, of course, it’s not in the home. . . .
Check on the internet, just search water heater explosions. If you’re still not convinced that the water heater isn’t the most dangerous piece of equipment, get out your calculator and a saturated steam table and figure out how much steam it would take in the average home to scald (here on the East coast,turn everyone in the home into a steamed hard crab)everyone in the home, not to mention the explosion it could create. Even homes in Miami, the Keys, and Southern California have water heaters. Bet theres more water heaters than furnaces. And yes, there have been people killed by water heater explosions.
I have seen the error of my ways and have been converted to the replace the PB pipe camp. I kept telling myself that all piping material leaks and if it is not leaking it is not my job to tell the client to replace the PB pipes. Then it dawned on me that when copper pipes leak it is usually a very small leak as opposed to the larger catastrophic leaks associated with PB pipe failures.
I couldn’t find any documentation for deaths by water heater explosions. I found a fairly recent explosion in Seattle that injured four people, three not serious and the fourth with 2nd-degree burns. Didn’t find any deaths by scalding either. However, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of deaths by carbon monoxide. D
Here’s a water heater explosion that Jerry Peck arranged several years ago:
We actually had two water heater explosions here in San Diego County in 2003, but none since then. I had the opportunity to see one. The house had been a 3,700-SF two-story house but was reduced to 1,700-SF. The tank was found a half mile away in a strip mall parking lot. No injuries to anyone in either explosion.
Here’s a very good web site on carbon monoxide deaths:
It gets updated on a regular basis as information on deaths, injuries, near deaths, etc., due to carbon monoxide pour into them.
I’ve never found more than three water heaters at a house, and that house was 15,700 SF. However, that same house had eight furnaces, five in the attics, one in the garage, and two in interior utility closets, one in a utility closet outside the master bedroom. And yet we still don’t require carbon monoxide detectors/alarms in our homes. How stupid can we be.
I regularly find two or three furnaces in 3,000-5,000 SF homes that only have one water heater.
I’ll stick with furnaces as the most dangerous appliance due to location; the fact that carbon monoxide is odorless, tasteless, and invisible; the fact that carbon monoxide kills and injures many, many, many more people than hot water or water heater explosions do; and the fact that the water heater at least has a TPR valve for some sort of safety–what does the furnace have?
Alas, they both are dangerous, but I’d probably choose electricity as the second most dangerous “appliance” in our homes, again basically because it is odorless, tasteless, and invisible.
I really don’t like things that are odorless, tasteless, and invisible. Hot water I can handle.