QOD for 07/15/04 (Structure)

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Foundation question



Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


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I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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What type of foundation? How old?



Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Answers "A" and "B" include "evaluations" which are beyond a home inspection. The cause of the crack is not known. Although settlement is suspected, the lack of any displacement or variation in crack width would make me stop and really think about that as an engineer. Answer "D" and "E" would at least imply that there was no issue with the crack, and it only needs repair ... which may not be the case.

The wall type is not noted or really the issue, but it can be inferred that it's concrete since there is no step in the crack noted. Also there is no mention of age, so it can be taken it's other than a new wall. Although, IMHO it's the age of the crack ... and not the home ... that is important.

New homes sometimes move a little and then stabilize, and older homes sometimes have a change in situation that causes cracks (seasonal rainfall, groundwater, grading, roof drainage, etc). But in performing an evaluation as an engineer I would be more suspicious about cracking in a new home, as opposed to cracking in an older home.

For those that answered "A" I would give partial credit since settlement is suspected and recommending an SE gets the monkey off your back ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

BTW ... a penny is almost exactly 1/16" ... so an 1/8" crack would be about the width of two Penny's ...


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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Bob,


With some recent enlightenment from one of my fellow inspectors, recommending monitoring would not be a viable solution. Most homeowners do not have the knowledge or experience for such a recommendation. If you are recommending monitoring, you may wish to rethink that recommendation and just choose to recommend repair.

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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For any cracking other than isolated hairline cracks (width < 1/16") I would advise to either recommend monitoring or recommend evaluation by an SE. It is a simple thing for a homeowner to keep an eye on cracks, and call in an engineer if it really gets noticeably worse. That at least partially gets the monkey off the HI?s back, but not completely.


I would not advise recommending repair of cracks for anything other than stabilized hairline cracks, where you are sure it's not a sign of a problem and you are just trying to limit water penetration. Even then, hairline cracking can be the first signs of a problem that is missed by an HI. The monkey is then squarely on the HI's back, and they may be on a very slippery slope with state engineering law and liability issues.

I would also advise evaluation by an SE for any significant cracking with displacement, or any cracking greater than 1/8" (3/16" or larger) even without displacement. Some HI's only recommend an SE for cracking greater than 3/16" (1/4" or larger) ... and IMHO that?s just not normal cracking any way you slice it.

There is a reason that structural issues constitute the highest liability area for an HI, representing over 1/3 of claims against them.

Just my opinion and 2 nickels ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Bob,


I do not doubt your wisdom, although I have been told that homeowners are not capable of executing the recommended monitoring when it is recommended and it would be better for all involved just to recommend repair and/or evaluation.

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Joe … I would agree that if you think a homeowner is unable to monitor a crack, then that should be done by an SE.



Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Rob,


One who I respect immensely once stated that a strictural engineer will view any foundation crack the width of a mechanical pencil lead to be significant. This person further stated that the engineer would likely gauge the crack and monitor it over the next several months. This person warned us to steer clear of "evaluations".

That being said, answer "c" implies the same degree of evaluation as "a", IMO. The average homeowner will not distinguish "settlement" from "Might be settlement". It "might" be anything.

That said, I believe the answer with the magical "SE" in it is the ONLY viable and correct answer for the HI to note. The crack, as described (down a wall, across a slab, and back up a wall) would raise a huge red flag in my book. I would never recommend "monitoring".

This is one crack that I wouldnt want biting me in the a$% ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

Now... who was that esteemed engineer who gave me this valuable information? Let me think...


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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there would have been two possible correct answers … icon_wink.gif ]



Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong