Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
when you go on an inspection and there is paneling/drywall up agst the basement walls do you ask the homeowner to have that taken down to do proper inspection of walls(yes,maybe have to come back or maybe you ask them when they call you for inspection whether there is anything up agst the walls)…what do you all do in that situation? And if not, if you cannot do a proper inspection of the bsmt walls, do you still charge the same amount of for the inspection or do you take X amount of off?
Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thx David…Ok…then,looks like there will not be any paneling/drywall coming down. As i read Standards of Practice…sez in 2.3 basement,foundation etc. that The inspector shall inspect A. The basement B.The foundation…E. Any present conditions or indications of active water penetration etc F. Report on any general indications of foundation movement that are observed etc…so, plz correct me if im wrong...it states an inspector is supposed to 'inspect' signs of water penetration and just like it sez,lolol...report on general indications of foundation movement....and my question is, if the seller is not going to have walls bare to inspect then how is the inspection of the walls n signs of water going to take place…and if not…then do you reduce the cost?
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mark,
The term used would be "inspect for visible indications of". If the basement is finished, we would look for moisture stains on the finished visible surfaces of the molding, walls, carpet near the walls, any boxes or items on the floor near the wall that may give an indication, etc. This is the standard for the industry, and is also followed by WDO/WDI inspectors.
By thinking that the paneling or wallboard should be removed, one could also ascertain that the soil should be excavated away from the foundation. 
A home inspection is a visual examination of the readily accessible and visible components of the home. It is not technically exhaustive, and will not turn up every problem in the home. In an unfinished basement, I would NEVER say that the basement does not leak, nor would I say that the basement did leak, unless I saw water coming in through the foundation during the inspection. I would report that there were indications of leakage at "xxx" area and that an expert in basement waterproofing should evaluate and make any necessary repairs.
I suppose that should give you more business, since you're in the business.
Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
hi ya Blaine…ok then…again, if there is paneling agst the wall, you will not be able to inspect/see the wall…right? lolol…And if the wall is bowed,or is beginning to buckle then you cant see that…right? A more thorough inspection(not your fault) of the walls would be what is best for potential buyer, right? A foundation is extremely imporant and can be costly to fix so why not change some things and take the time and do it right, again not any inpsectors fault the way theyve been doing things and the way theyve been’scholled’ to do things. Personally…im a TAD more worried about buying a house with a crap foundation then i am about anything else on the agenda. To tell a potential buyer that "on this 1 day for a few hours while i (the inspector) was there that there was no water on the floor or you couldnt or didnt notice any problem with wall movement" is kinda scary. Dont forget...there are quite a few homeowners who have and will replace stained moldings,paneling,move stained boxes completely outta sight,clean the carpet,change tiles on bsmt floors etc. to hide n conceal. And…thankfully with 100% honesty throughout all these years, i dont need anymore work…not looking to garner work from my posts,only here to inform and help regular folks.
Originally Posted By: mkober This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
My standard finished basement inspection includes taking enough measurements with my BD-2100 Delmhorst to ascertain the presence of abnormal moisture, and note the results on the report. Having good equipment and knowing how and when to use it is what separates the good inspectors from the “wanna-be’s.”
Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
D Bowers–Wow…why the rub? No…i am not or do i care to be a HI, no to naive, no to playing games…and intelligent questions?? Lolol ! Whats the harm in the question i posed? Just cuz i didnt know what your ‘standards of practice’ are–were…which also most if not all homeowners dont either, i only asked a pretty simple question. Fine,ok…lets just inform(maybe stress the point) the Seller and Buyer of a homes w/Basements that are finished,that have paneling/drywall up agst walls…and that are Inspected by HI…that the Bsmt walls may still leak in some areas and the walls could possibly be cracked- bowing-buckling. I understand you would recommend a SE if there are any doubts…thats your..out, or keeping clear of this possible situation. But some people put stock into the fact that a HI was there and didnt notice or see any waterproofing or foundation problems. Ill hear some say after the sale that’Oh, we had it inspected and were told everything was fine"
Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
D Spencer… Ha! nah to the book, but have been told by quite a few folks that i should on the subject of basement waterproofing and walls to…clear alot of myths and misinformation up. Hmmm, Home warrantys…well, around here the hm warrantys or insurance doesnt cover( as far as i know) basement waterproofing problems and-or foundation work. I`ve seen and been told by many homeowners who have tried. Thats a pretty good reason to know what shape the foundation is in…before ya buy the house!
Originally Posted By: jwortham This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
So we should remove the drywall covering the finished basement walls just to “make sure” the foundation doesn’t have an issue?
Perhaps we should also remove the drywall upstairs, after all, the wiring could be faulty. And now that you mention it, we should rip out the shower enclosure. After all, the plumbing could be leaking. Don't forget to dig up the front lawn to check the footings.
Of course, after we've done all this, you won't want to buy the house. But, the seller shouldn't have a problem with the repairs, after all, he was the one who didn't tear his house apart to make it ready for us!
And you're right, since I didn't totally gut the house to check everything, you shouldn't have to pay full price. In fact, since I didn't completely disassemble the house, you shouldn't pay at all! Consider it free home demolition. Of someone ELSES home!
Seems a little silly now doesn't it?
If you don't want to hire a home inspector, don't. It's as simple as that. If you think we are trying to rip you off, go it alone. I guarantee you, I won't lose a minutes sleep if you don't hire me to inspect your home.
But I have the feeling I would end up losing ALOT of sleep if I did have you as a client.
Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
oh geeezz…im not saying its a HI fault, not saying THEY need or have to remove anything anywhere... however, i am saying that since it could be quite costly IF there is a problem(s) with the bsmt walls.....that maybe, just maybe more buyers should not just ASSUME all is Ok with the walls just because an inspection was done & be aware of the potential costs which might be required to fix such problems cuz around here its prolly going to be an out of pocket expense to fix. Like i said...i didnt at first read or know of your standards of practice upon my original post. Why the heart attack? lolol ...ive seen over `n over what can and does happen to walls…whether someone has been in a house for 30 years or when the house was just sold. So…your going to jump on someone who didnt know-read your S of P and who simply asked a question on how a HI inspects Bsmt walls that ya cant see and whether or not you reduce the cost of an inspection because of that…no harm intended
Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
J W–may as well add that…no thx, i have never and will never hire any HI…thats not to say that many people shouldnt cuz most of you folks know more than many homeowners and your experience and honesty will much more than likely help them. So many defensive statements…with 26 years on bsmt waterproofing exp…i dont see the harm in bringing up n posting my thoughts on this 1 subject. Quite a few of you HI have tried to make out that...im naive or am not asking intelligent questions,or as Dave states “Why bother” and some are comparing-weighing their experiences versus mine, and thats fine. I`m just shining some light where…well, maybe where it needs to be shed.
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The "Standards-of-Practice" of every State and National Association of home inspectors and the licensing laws of any state with HI licensure also state something along those same lines.
In short we can't see through walls, floors, finish coverings, etc. Neither can the foundation contractor or structural engineer without destructive testing which the seller does not often grant in a home sale.
The report of any decent inspectors will usually tell their clients this.
As someone that grew up in a foundation family, if I ever had one of our engineers or foundation technicians try to tell someone for 100% sure the condition of a wall or floor that was not fully visible or opened up to a cross-section - - I would have thought him/her dumber than snot and fired them on the spot.
Originally Posted By: wwarner This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mark Anderson wrote:
Home warrantys....well, around here the hm warrantys or insurance doesnt cover( as far as i know) basement waterproofing problems and-or foundation work.
You answered your own question there.
Every basement will have water problems at one point or another. I don't care how new or old it is. Educating the client is what sets us apart from the "typical" inspector. If there are foundation problems, many times they will be evident through the wall covering. If the seller "covered up" damage by replacing stained sections or re-painting, then that falls under disclosure laws. If a client is SO concerned about foundation problems, I advise them NOT to buy a home with a basement. Problems usually arise when the client puts their 200 year old oak dining table in the basement along with their "Picasso's" leaning against the wall. When the water comes in (and it will sometime), they want to blame someone else for their lack of foresight.
In short, if the walls are covered, I tell the client as per the PIA and SoP "I can't see through walls or coverings. My experience with basements is that water will come sometime if it hasn't already. Keep valuables off floors and away from walls. Install a sump pit if one does not already exist. It's a basement, you can take preventative measures, but nothing is a cureall or fixall... just be prepared."
Originally Posted By: jbushart This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mark - thanks for your post.
Sometimes in our enthusiasm we overlook the simplicity behind certain questions.
Basically, what you are asking is - Can a home inspector "inspect" something he cannot visually observe? The answer is - sometimes.
We can smell and we can measure a variety of other factors that the visual sense cannot detect. Even though I am standing on the floor and looking at it, a handful of marbles can help me determine if it slopes.
You have pointed toward a leaking basement that is finished and, with your experience in this field, you will know that paneled walls do little to disguise active moisture problems. What they are best at hiding is the evidence of past repair to moisture problems that can reoccur. This could slip past the most experienced of inspectors, if there are no other clues. Home sellers have been known to be pretty tricky.