Should wire serving waste disposals be in conduit? And are they allowed to run through the same hole in the wall as a supply pipe?
Should this be in conduit? No, it should have come into the back of the box. That is a POOR example of workmanship.
I would feel that installation is subject to damage so yes, either hide the wire or use some form of protection.
There should be a wall mounted outlet into which the disposal is plugged. Having a plug provides the required safety disconnect.
I agree with Speedy…no it should not be in THAT hole…the trim ring could damage it, storing items under the sink could damage it…tell them to sleeve it in Greenfield or Liquid Tight…to protect it…not the best thing but will be an easy fix…also they can cut to the side of that hole and move the wire out FROM the opening it is now.
Many years ago people would run NM cable right up to the Disposal and many would say if it is run with the piping it is not subject to damage…but times change…
Personally we install a receptacle under the counters now and put a cord and plug on the Disposals
I will assume that is fed from a SWITCH on the counter…correct?
I’m sure the guy was happy that he could fish that wire and hit the hole. You guys are right tho. He should have worked on the finish a bit. A box and a receptacle with a little further fishing would clean that up a lot. That is the difference between an electrician and a handyman.
Yes, it does have a switch above the counter.
BUT…greg…thats how they told him to do it at Home Depot…
Seal tite is also required to be protected from physical damage. Read the requirements for disposers at:
422.16 …with a flexible cord identified as suitable for the purpose in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer…
(3) receptacles shall be located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
With this said , I would say that NM cable is as suitable as a cord, if it is installed with the thought of some kind of protection. I will say it is almost impossible to tell what the future person will do under the sink…yet we have all seen what really does happen.
Nonmetallic sheathed cable is required to be installed so it will closely follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.
Using it to supply a food waste disposal is illegal!
[FONT=Times-Roman][size=2]Nonmetallic-sheathed cable is required to be supported and secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable, at intervals not exceeding 41⁄2 ft and within 12 in. of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting.
The only way that a cable of this type can be installed without this support is when it i[FONT=Times-Roman][size=2]s *fished *between access points through concealed spaces in finished buildings or structures and supporting is impracticable.
**[size=4]or **
Where it is not more than 4[/size][/size]1⁄2 ft from the last point of cable support to the point of connection to a luminaire (lighting fixture) or other piece of electrical equipment and the cable and point of connection are within an accessible ceiling. [/FONT][/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Times-Roman][size=2][FONT=Times-Roman][size=2]
[/size][/FONT][/size][/FONT]
Dudes…we are talking about GREY area’s here…if the client is NOT going to do anything…give them options…I am 100% sure they are not going to pull out the NM cable…so sleeve it in something and be safer than it is right now.
Yes, it is against code in NEW construction…but was done alot in older construction, I would focus on making it safe as we know they are not going to redo it…so what are their better options.
Move it to the right and bring it into the back of a 4x4 box and out a receptacle on it…and do a cord and plug to the disposal.
Ironic that cords are allowed yet NM is not…amazing huh…
Anyway…give them the advice and let them choose.
lol…Maybe they FISHED it down to that location…lol anyway yes I know Liquid Tight is not good for physical protection…However with the LACK of the NEC defining the terms of Physical Damage…most AHJ’s I deal with…even some that are HIGH up the ladder in the industry would allow it to be sleeved and er on the SIDE of better protection.
Kenneth:
On another note, the color yellow of the outer jacket in your pictures for this Type NM-B indicates that it is sized at 12 AWG, and because it is round there are 4-12 AWG wires, one white, one black, one red, and a bare EGC.
The recommendations to use a sleeve may be an option, but I would like to see the bottom and the disposal’s splicing compartment, and if this is the point where someone installed this cable and spliced the switched and grounded conductor in that small space?
Show me this please!!
Using a sleeve as recommended presents another question, and that’s just how will the end look when run into the disposal, will the cable still be exposed, or run into some type of connector, angle or 45 degree?
Your best advice to the customer would be to tell them that the cable is not properly installed!
They should also ask the installer if this work was inspected?
Paul’s suggestion to put the cable into a box and install areceptale and cord and plug connect the unit is the best route
Inspection here? I doubt it! :roll:
Here’s a picture of the 2w/wg type
Using Romex has been accepted for years in spite of the fact that it was never really legal. Around here the AHJs and contractors have decided a better solution is a factory equipped cord and plug connected disposal. That solves the disconnect issue, makes replacements easier, allows the “appliance drop” to be very late in the building cycle and avoids the “romex” issue. The disposal gets installed with the plumbing trim and without any coordination necessary with the electrician. The additional cost of the disposal is trivial and certainly recovered many times over in coordination costs. It certainly makes a later replacement by the homeowner a lot easier and safer.
In the case of the above installation, I would say the “fix” would be to put in an old work box of some type with a receptacle, rerouting the Romex so it stays concealed and add the manufacturer’s cord kit to the disposal.
scary !!
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, Romex (NM-B) wiring is solid wiring and cannot be used in a situation where it will be flexed because it will eventually break, whereas stranded wire will not break when flexed repeatedly. In addition to being subject to damage, the cord to a disposal will be flexed every time the homeowner shoves the garbage can up agaist it.
That is covered by the securing and “closely follow building finish” language.
Greg,
I was wondering if some one was going to bring this up. I’ve always wire the disposal with 14-2, installed it in NMC (smurf tube) tie-wrapped it to the plumbing pipes. Always passed inspection. I know that doesn’t make it right, but that’s the way I’ve done it and the way I’ve seen it done countless times.
Steve,
I am guessing this topic can be argued until everyone is blue in the face, I speak with alot of AHJ’s and they just don’t seem to find this nearly as a hazard as others may fine it to be.
Take the NM Cable to the Water Heater issue as well…now mosty AHJ’s I speak with and it is fine if others say they are wrong…but they allow this type of installation…and I can think of BIGGER things to refuse than that on an inspection…if they tie wrap it to the cold water pipe and do it neat and so on…I simply don’t have a problem with it…NOW I can quote code as to why it is wrong all day…I am speaking on a practicle acceptance basis…
As for the disposal…it also can be argued…but I happen to be one of those that feel unless an AJAX can went midevil on the wire…and took a life of it’s own…chances are if it is neatly wrapped to the pipe and not hanging down in the storage area…then I would probably not fail it…neither would more than 90% of the AHJ’s…
While the NEC may say it is not allowed…acceptance is everything and while I teach code…and explain code…It does not mean GRAY areas will allow me to let something go if I determine it is not a big issue…and thats my call or the AHJ’s call…not someone here on the internets call.
if your local AHJ’s are allowing something…then continue to do it until they say otherwise…as I stated I can think of MANY more areas of the electrical system that are way more hazardous…but using your best judgement is key…in the Home Inspection world…which is what we are REALLY dealing with here…I hardly think telling the client it has to be totally redone because it is code…will be very helpful…I would explain my concerns on it and how it should be done…again a Plug and Cord to a receptacle is the best fix here…
And in my opinion…it makes the HI look very good to know these options and be able to if anything verbally tell the client about it…so they are better educated.
[FONT=Verdana]In another thread, Mr. Abernathy says:[/FONT]
…unless I can drag you over into the electrical forum…I will just defer the arguement…lol
Paul: I will never post here. I don’t know nuthin’ about electricity except it doesn’t like me.
On Christmas Eve Day, our vacuum cleaner made a bright blue flash, POP! :shock: and stopped running. I cautiously opened it and saw that several of the wires had come undone and now resembled copper spaghetti. My wife asked me to fix it. So I grabbed my pistol and took the vacuum to the forest behind my house and fixed it real good. :twisted: I think my wife will probably start talking to me again in a couple of days after she gets over the loss of her fav vacuum. Until then, I’ll chalk it up to “quality range time.”
Elecrticity? I can’t even spell it.
Cheers!
Caoimhín P. Connell
[FONT=Arial](The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)
AMDG[/FONT]
lol…OMG…ytou know funny you should say that as my wifes carpet cleaning machine did the exact same thing…started smoking and WHAMO…DOA.
Better to not fix those things…CHUCK EM’ and BUY NEW…FANCY STUFF !