Can you see it I just stood and stared for a couple of minutes before I noticed
Only two grounded conductors?
AND how many 120 volt circuits, how does any lights and or outlets or any thing else 120 volts operate:roll:
I looked at that panel and my mind just did not want to beleive what I was seeing I have never seen this before:shock:
Pic is a little fuzzy on my end.
Not enough grounds or neutrals for all those circuits.
Copper wire used as a double breaker tie.
Same 220v circuit appears to be double tapped on one leg and two different breakers. Are they the same amp rating?
So where are all the grounded conductors?
The double poles were not double tapped but the bottom right double pole only had one wire appears to be used as a 120 volt.
My biggie was the lack of neutrals they bundled all the neutals in a old panel and ran one neutral to the updated panel me thinks this was a home owner special
[QUOTE=cbottger;979471
The double poles were not double tapped but the bottom right double pole only had one wire appears to be used as a 120 volt.
My biggie was the lack of neutrals they bundled all the neutals in a old panel and ran one neutral to the updated panel me thinks this was a home owner special[/QUOTE]
I like to call those “Harry Homeowner specials”!!
Additionally, it looks like the bonding screw is missing from the grounding terminal. Was there some other form of bonding somewhere?
The whole thing is FUBAR
Charley was this an update of an old 60 amp service?
Prior to the current version of the NEC there was nothing to prohibit such an installation.
I am not a code Geek but that sounds crazy never seen it done that way
Not for sure prolly a 70 amp the old panel was inside a closet just above the door and there was of all things a WH stuffed inside the closet
It was one of those things that wasn’t specifically prohibited by the NEC prior to the 2011. The 2011 added this code section {200.4} to prohibit it. It is still permitted under 225.7.
Robert is dead on on this. The problem I see is that it was still required for the grounded conductor to be sized according to the sum of the connected loads. Unless I miss counted, there should be a conductor roughly the size of a #6 connecting the old panel to this panel in order to carry the total connected line to neutral loads. That would all depend on the actual calculated current load based on the rating of the OCPD’s for these circuits.
I am going to have a licensed electrician look at it anyways because of other problems that need corrected. Ya see I learned something here today but I have never seen this done in my area. This inspection was in a location that I don’t visit very often
Most electricians wont install circuits in this manner, even though it has been compliant. I can understand where you might not have ever seen this.
BTW, those are great IR shots of the service connection points. It would have been interesting to see exactly what the voltage at the main was. I will bet my bottom dollar it was well below line rating.
As always Charley, I am impressed with your work. Good luck on Member of the Year. Yourself and Jeff are both well deserving of this honor, as well as many others I have been fortunate to have encountered on this forum.
Merry Christmas!
Why did they change the NEC to prohibit it?