Originally Posted By: Guest This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Even if the breaker was rated for two wires at each terminal, no breaker is rated for two different sized wires, which is essentially what you have there. I’d call it.
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi to all,
I agree with Chad, it has to be an issue, as breakers are designed to properly accomodate the wire size for the amperage that they are designed to trip under.
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
gbeaumont wrote:
Hi to all,
I agree with Chad, it has to be an issue, as breakers are designed to properly accomodate the wire size for the amperage that they are designed to trip under.
Regards
Gerry
How do you address voltage drop? I have put #6 under a 20 amp plenty of times.
Originally Posted By: dbozek This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Of course I have to say sumthin here
For what it is worth....the ideal situation would be the wire being rated higher than the device protecting it. Ideal situation.....but not always the case in residential. To cut off strands or to separate the strands to fit a terminal on a breaker or a lug is not acceptable. By doing such you are degrading the connection of the wire to the terminal. It's almost as if the terminal is double tapped...and we should all know what a double tapped connection can do.
-- You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln
Originally Posted By: Charles Palmieri This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I.m sorry but I do not detect cut strands not to argue (there may be). Why is the insulation cracked??
If a terminal is rated for a maximum size conductor than the installation of a larger conductor is a violation.
Regarding Ryans' post, I would like to inquire if the #6 was installed on a 20 A circuit breaker and if so what type of breaker (MFG) was it??(how well did it fit)??
Voltage drop essentially is a product of current drawn by the load multiplicand by the line resistance. This is pretty straight forward for DC applications . It can be a bit more complicated in AC , but for typical residential applications E drop = I line X R of the conductor, is a decent indicator.
What are your concerns regarding voltage drop??
Those terminals on the breaker appear to have groves for the placement of conductors, I do not wish to guess at the maximum gage on the breaker in the picture but I suspect they are larger than the device is listed for.
If the connected conductors exceed the manufactures marking (usually found on the side of the OCPD) then there is a violation and this installation should be cited so!The terminal screw may not have sufficient length to establish a positive connection and you could have over heating of possibly a glowing contact, this not require an incredible a,amount of current. the result over time could include overheating, melting, deformation of the insulation, (arcing and flash-over) and possibly fire.
But I would still like some more information regarding this installation.
Originally Posted By: dbozek This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
.m sorry but I do not detect cut strands not to argue (there may be). Why is the insulation cracked??
Probably because the connection got hot and melted the insulation...thus causing it to crack at some point in time.
It looks like a sqd breaker and if it is such.....then that cannot be bigger than a 30 amp breaker.....for after 30 amps sqd goes to a lug versus the terminals shown in the pic. The wire size is not known but it could be a 6 and if such is true....way too big for those types of terminals and it should be flagged. In fact it must be a sqd for the breaker above it sure looks like one and I do believe that sqd is the only manufacturer of that type of twin breaker. Therefore.....tis a 30 amp breaker wired with 6 gauge wire....flag it! The wire is way to big for those types of terminals
-- You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
There is nothing wrong with using wire bigger than necessary and I, like Ryan have often used 6 AWG or larger with 20 amp breakers. The difference is many commercial type breakers have terminals rated for these large conductors, this breaker does not.
The easy and legal fix would simply be to splice a small length of the right size conductor onto this larger conductor.
I would 'flag it' for fixing by an electrician.
I have had to run 4 AWG for 120 volt 20 amp duplex outlets to avoid voltage drop, in that case we spliced on 10 AWG at each termination. It's kind of hard to land a 4 AWG on a duplex outlet.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Charles Palmieri wrote:
Voltage drop essentially is a product of current drawn by the load multiplicand by the line resistance. This is pretty straight forward for DC applications . It can be a bit more complicated in AC , but for typical residential applications E drop = I line X R of the conductor, is a decent indicator.
What are your concerns regarding voltage drop??
Wire size.
Wire is just one long resistor. The smaller it is, the more resistance it has. Have a voltage drop problem with 14 AWG? Install 12 AWG, or 10 AWG, or (whatever size takes care of the voltage drop.
Based on DC resistance (and acknowledging AC is not as cut and dried) 14 AWG can make a circuit 62 1/2' long, 125' of conductor, and will have 5% voltage drop ON THE CONDUCTOR. Use 12 AWG for that circuit to solve voltage drop.
Originally Posted By: Charles Palmieri This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree with J peck he has hit the mark regarding voltage drop Vs loading. 125 feet of 14 Cu at 75 deg C is approx .38 ohms. 5% of 120 volts is 6V. A 6 Volt drop across this resistance will occur when load current reaches 15.78 A .
None of these figures takes into account terminations down stream or the conductors co efficient of resistance Vs Ambient temp.
I was told once that the distance from the source should not exceed the operating voltage of the circuit. These figures (under ideal conditions) support that.
The difference is many commercial type breakers have terminals rated for these large conductors, this breaker does not.