Structure Course Completed, Sent out

Inspection Education Topics Inspection Education & Training
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Please Note: The following post is mine alone, having nothing to do with the NACHI Education Committee or the NACHI Chicago Chapter. Any flack deriving therefrom whould be directed to me. My e-mail and all phone numbers are listed below, so no one has an excuse for posting it in public or for it becoming a big stink. :mrgreen:

For every one else. The education courses have been sent to the NY state NACHI eduction administrator. He is aware of the rules and has agreed to abide by them.

Professional associations have rules. Professionals have discipline and know why rules are needed. Professionals abide by those rules. Professionals also think of others before they thing about enriching themselves.

The reason that I started working on these courses iw because I was sick and tired of people who want to ‘teach’ (and do so at great profit!) rather than do, and therefore teach from a position of moral authority, and not for profit.

You pay your NACHI dues. That should be enough. Why pay someone else for education you can ge less expensively (and better!) from NACHI.

Anyone who has a beef with this, my number is below. Posting sour grapes here, without talking directly with me, does not have any legitimacy. They only want to grand stand.

This will help.

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Well Len
I hope you did not give up on NACHI. You will be missed, I hope who ever takes over your chapter will have as much dedication to NACHI and its members as you do/did. Thank you for all your hard work and effort. Keep in touch. This is not good by forever I will see you in July :wink:
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redacted

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Here is my point. It may help you in your state, because NY is just now setting up licensing and CE requirements and all that other stuff, and its attendant confusion, which Illinois did years ago.

When there is a state requirement, there is also a whole new industry spawned. Here, in Illinois, there are separate state licenses (and requirements) for pre-licensing HI schools and for state approved CE providers. We also have a third license that is required for each CE course. The two courses that Kne Demski, Russ Myers and myself prepared were written to mee our state requirements. As such, their content (especially the tests and answer jeys) are to be kept out of the public’s hands. I would assume that your school’s curriculum has similar requirements.

What happend, here in Illinois, is that many Home Inspectors saw it as easier to teach than to do inspections. They (through and with other associations) got state CE provider and course licenses.

As it turned out, pretty much all of these courses were pretty easy. All that I have attended are so easy that one could literally sleep through the course and still pass the test. For this privledge, the poor working HI gets to pay between $195 and $250 for 6 hours worth of state CE.

Our courses, on the other hand, are very substantial. They attempt to actually teach the attendees some things that they didn’t know before. They also cost much less ($25.00 for NACHI Chapter, slightly more for NACHI members who are not Chapter members and $50.00 for non-NACHI members). This has, needless to say, peeved off a number of the other state CE providers. They have been forced to lower their prices (many have come down $20 - $30). I have nothing against people getting paid for their work, but when a new and better and less expensive alternative comes along, it is just plain silly stick with the old way.

As I understand your business, you are a pre-licensing school. This is a very different issue. Some private pre-licensing schools around here charge more than $1,000 to teach the state required 60 hours. Soon, local community colleges became licensed by the state and started giving the pre-licensing course for under $400, and the community colleges gave a much better quality course. Were the private providers angry? Sure. But the community colleges gave better service for a cheaper price.

Bill, you and I have different visions, motivations and goals. Some people will be better served by your model. Others will like mine better.

But, I am sure that you would agree, NACHI provides a means to help both of us, and more importantly, the NACHI members.

I would be interested to learn what NY will do with regards to state CE courses. When that is determined, NACHI will help to get the NACHI courses approved in your state. Will you want to make a profit teaching them or will you, as we have, provide them to NACHI members for little or no cost.

That is the issue.

Hope this helps.

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Will:redacted

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“You must be confusing Len Ungar with someone else, since Len Ungar does not own or operate a school. You must know who the players are and what they do before you suggest that he is in the education business.”

From: http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3389, posted by you yesterday.

“Bill Merrell and Len Ungar Appraisal Education Network School and Merrell Institute
Questions, or a FREE Brochure, Call 631-563-7720. We are committed to offering low cost, high value education meeting NYS Licensing regulations. I was told that all Educational Organizations have the right to publish educational courses to benefit NACHI members. This was and is not the first publication. If is now the second posting this week regarding Home Inspection Programs to benefit NACHI Members. We are also proud to let our students know about NACHI and can verify that over 70% of our graduates become NACHI members after graduating and becoming Licensed in New York State. That was and is our commitment to NACHI.”

Looks like you and Len are in the education business, together, to me. :mrgreen:

From your other posts, I assume that you are also providing Power Points free to other NACHI Chapter presidents, as you wrote here:

http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3424

So you are doing much the same as we are. Are these Power Points free, like ours are? Would you mind if Russ Myers (a NACHI Chapter President) received them and adapted them for submission for state approved CE? Once approved by the State of Illinois, they would also be available to NACHI members in other states for their use.

This would really help NACHI, don’t you think?

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Hi Will,

P.O. box 1481
meredith, NH 03253

thanks
Carla Horne
NACHI NH Education Representative

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redacted

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Will;

  1. In the post #4 to be exact you stated that you were sending your CD to Earl, Mike, Dave. I think you are talking with forked tounge, you can send it to your friends without state approval but not to others. NOT NICE !!!

  2. I have nothing to do with Bills school except teach the 40hr OJT module for new inspectors period.

  3. I have been in Nachi a lot longer than you and know the rules.

  4. This education committe was appointed not elected and I don’t care for it trying to tell me what I can or cannot do for my chapter members.
    Hitler has been gone for a long time if you know what I mean.

  5. I was in the service from 51-55 and had enough of the chain of commands when I was discharged. I do not have to start doing that again and willnot.

  6. Like I said before you can keep your CD and put it where the sun doesn’t shine. There should be only one standard, I hope Earl,Mike,Dave enjoy it.

Have a nice Pasoc.

Regards Len

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  1. They are not my ‘friends’. I was responding to direction from the NACHI Education Committe Chairman. I cannot (and will not, from now on) respond to requests for course from everyone and their cousin. I am under authority and can only respond to that authority. I understand that this concept is new to NACHI, ehere everyone feels completely free to go around any authority in an attempt to get what they want, but that has to (and will, as far as I am concerned) stop. It does not help and, as demonstrated, greatly hurts.

  2. So you teach, for credit, for Bill’s School. So you are Bill’s employee? (Module 5, I believe?). If you teach, then you are an educator. What am I missing?

  3. If you know the rules, then why do you attempt to change them? All NACHI education comes through the NACHI Education Committee. Do you know that rule? I have, many times, posted the requirement (as given to me) for these courses. Have you read these rules. Are you (or Bill) a ‘Full’ NACHI member? Has Mr. Merrill provided his 25 inspection reports for evaluation against NACHI standards and attained ‘Full’ membership? Are you aware that one cannot be a Chapter officer without being a ‘Full’ member?

Just asking.

  1. The ED committee is not trying to tell you what you can and cannot do. It is, however, making sure that, if you want to use NACHI beefits, what you must comply with. See number 3, i.e. ‘The Rules’.

  2. I suggest that you take this up with your Pastor, Priest, Rabbi or therapist. Not a subject for this board.

  3. The CDs I use won’t fit.

And, you, have a happy ‘Pesach’ (Passover, to you Gentiles :smiley: ). Also, have a nice ‘First Fruits’ (aka, Ressurrection Day) ‘three days’ later.

May He Bless you and Keep you and make His face to shine on you, always.

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Will

Right is Right

Hang in there

Education under the old way just cost’s TOO much – the game is over – look at some of the large companies and countries that are now using the net and or “electronic teachers” The days of the high cost of one on one are over. It is sort of like a wire line telephone

Keep up the good work try to remind me that I have some pix’s to find from convention to email you

Later

Dick

rlb

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Will;
Your #5 was uncalled for and I am not a Gentile. Also like I said before you can keep your CD and that’s all this is about so don’t try to stur up some crap about being a full member ect. Remember this is the USA not Russia.
You have just covinced me that you are a donkey.
I will not respond to you or your posts in the future, SO have a nice “Pesach”

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Will,

There are many chapter Presidents that are not full members. I even know of one that has never performed an inspection.

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REDACTED- agreed to by everyone

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"Your #5 was uncalled for and I am not a Gentile. Also like I said before you can keep your CD and that’s all this is about so don’t try to stur up some crap about being a full member ect. Remember this is the USA not Russia.
You have just covinced me that you are a donkey.
I will not respond to you or your posts in the future, SO have a nice “Pesach”

  1. I am sorry. I thought that you were Gentile because you spelled Pesach wrong. :smiley:

  2. The NACHI, state approved continuing education course is available to any NACHI Chapter President. This is not my rule, but that of the NACHI Education Committee. As a member of that committee, and working under their and NACHI’s authority, I must comply with their rules. Surely you see that? There is a clear proceedure in place for getting these courses. It was not made up by me, but by the committee. The reason it is in place is:

a) Because NACHI, as a national association that does business in all 50 states and is recognized and licensed as a continuing education provider in many states, has to comply with the various rules or all those states. You can see the huge responsibility this is.

b) Because I, personally, sometimes have been known to just send out stuff that I should not have, under the state and NACHI rules.

c) As you know, the NHIE used to be the gold standard. Then, because of carelessness by another group, as well as various state mandates, the questions and answers to this test became common and public knowledge. It’s like if the SAT answer key was openly available on the internet. The test itself would be worthless. NACHI has a committment to making sure that its hard work is not just P*ssed away. Therefore, these courses are distributed, free of charge, only through NACHI Chapert Presidents and only theough the Education Committee Chairman and olny by following the rules. Russ Myers has a great deal of responsibility on his shoulders doing this. With responsibility comes authority. Sure, it makes it harder, but anyone who can’t see the ‘big picture’ is just acting childish.

d) I was told, not 5 months ago, that I could not be the VP of the Chicago Chapter, by NACHI national, because I was not a ‘full member’. To be a full member, one has to have 10o inspections and submit a representative sample (I believe 25, randomly selected) to NACHI for evaluation of conformance to the NACHI SOP. Sure, I was angry, but I followed the rules. Mr. John Bowman, NACHI’s Executive Director, reviewed my inspections and I was made a full member. This is a rule (so I was told by John Bowman and Joe Farcetta) and I had to follow it. I was not questioning your credentials, just asking if the rules applied to everyone. I have chosen to be a member of NACHI, therefore, I have also chosen to abide by the rules.

e) Being required to follow rules, and taking on the responsibility to learn and understand the rules is a simple act for any adult. It is not a ‘Russian’ invention (BTW: I believe you meant "Soviet Union’, not Russia.)

f) I am sorry that you are ‘covinced’ that I am a ‘donkey’. I can assure you that I am a human being. Donkeys cannot type (that I know of). :mrgreen:

Hope this helps;

If you have any further questions or comments, or need further clarification, pleas call me (numbers below). Let’s not clog up the board any more.

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In response to Mr. Merrell (Pardon me, DR. Merrell); See below. He and I seem to have the same disease (longpostitis):

"Regarding my own experience. I have performed many inspections and have all documentation to prove each inspection performed for over a decade. (I have been in the Real Estate field since the late 1970’s) The rules you are now quoting were not in place when I entered the ranks of NACHI, however I filed all appropriate documents and filed everything required to open a chapter. Since you are not a chapter president, you do not know all the enrgy it takes to run a chapter. Or am I incorrect? Are you now the President elect for your chapter? If so, congratulations are in order.

  1. The question stands (actually two questions).
    a) Are you a ‘full’ NACHI member
    b) Is it a NACHI rule that Chapter Officers must be ‘full’ members.
    I leave this up to NACHI. Not my job and above my ‘pay’ grade.

  2. I am not a Chapter President. Mr. Russ Myers is our Chapter President. I am well aware of the ‘enrgy’ it takes as Russ, regularly, calls me for help and usually very late at night. If need be, you can visit the Chapter web site: www.NACHIChicago.org and see a list of the Chapter membership, call them ans ask them what their opinion is of Russ. He recently won 2 different awards at the NACHI convention, for outstanding contributions, both personally and through the Chapter. I would ask (with hope of recieving an answer) what is the membership of your chapter? I have heard from L.I. and NY inspectors. They have said that your chapter is small. I would like to know your side.

  3. If nominated, I will not run, if elected, I will not serve. I don’t want to be a Chapter President. I was ‘drafted’ to be VP. Hope this clears things up.

Until told in writing by a NACHI authority to the contrary, I can and will continue working towards the benefit of NACHI, and not worry about the message board posts of a new member from Illinois who just entered the field.

I am not in a position of authority to tell you different, as far as NACHI authority. As to the other part of this statement, it speaks for itself. You, Sir, have no class. You claim ‘old guard’ status, by mere convenience of age and ‘just showing up’. If you do not ‘worry’ about us lowly ‘newbies’, why do you so lower yourself from your high and exaulted position as ‘Herr DR! Merrell’?

Get a life. A real one, this time.

You run a little trade school. Again, I ask. What, exactly is your ‘PhD’ in. Is it a rigorous field of study or just a paper degree. What accredited University granted you this degree. Please provide documentation (for other to verify) as plainly as you flaunt your degree. If I am wrong in my assumption, you will have my public apology. This ball is in your court.

Much luck and success to all at NACHI. Don’t consider these message board posts as negative. Consider them a positive reflection of the fact that NACHI allows freedom to speak your mind on the message board.

Agreed!

I am not sure what Mr. Deckers role is at NACHI. Perhaps he has become the watchdog for NACHI members who are unwilling to be told what to do by the education committee, without anything in writing to back it up. Please show me the official notice which all NACHI members should already have in their posession as to the authority vested in the Education Committee and the Newly created level of NACHI government known as the State Advisors.

My ‘role’ has been clearly posted and stated on this board many times. Why are you not sure?

I am not a ‘watchdog’. As to being ‘told what to do by the education committee’, that is just a plain ad hominim arguement and beneath any PhD.

As to the ‘in writing stuff’, it is on this board. The student often challanges the professor to ‘provide proof’, when they are found lacking.

  1. There is a NACHI Education Committee.
  2. Mr. Russ Myers is its Chairman.
  3. If you are confused or not well informed, ask him.

As for myself. I am
a) A ‘full’ member of NACHI.
b) A state licensed Home Inspector. I have passed the NHIE. I was ‘licensed’ before NY even had licensing. I asy this not to denigrate NY inspectors, but merely to provide you with an authoritative credental that you (may) understand.
c) I am a member (elected by the membership of that group) of the MAB.
d) I am a member (‘appointed’ by the Chariman and by Mr. Jon Bowman) or the NACHI Education Committee.
e) I am (reluctantly) the NACHIChicago Chapter VP.
f) I have (at least partially) authored 2 (with more to follow) state approved Home Inspector continuing education courses.
g) I, at the behest of NACHI, teach these courses for no compensation (besides a free meal, occasional gas money and someone bying me a drink, now and then).
f) I do free ride alongs with newly licnesed inspectors (did my 30th today). Seems these guys trust me to help them along.
g) I do ‘reverse ride alongs’ with newly licensed inspectors. This means that I go along with them on their first inspectons and carry the tools and have their back (free) in order to help them leave the nest (without getting themselves sued!).
h) Have worked in construction, building management and actually done stuff since I was 8 years old.

Does his answer your question?

Further, the education committee, and state advisors are appointees, yet they appear to be acting as elected officials. Why would someone get that impression. Volunteers are great. Len Ungar volunteers, Will, you seem to be volunteering your time and I volunteer my time. Why then are you so quick to believe that others are not as worthy as you.

If you do not like the benifits that NACHI is trying to provide, that is your choice.

I have never said, never implied and never posted that I am more ‘worthy’ than anyone else. In fact, I have repeatedly said (didn’t you hear me in Florida?) that ANY NACHI member could (and hopefully, will) do what I have tried to do.

Another ad hominim argument, mixed with a ‘straw man’.

When were you appointed to the education committee, and as of that appointment date how many years of full time experience did you have an a Home Inspector or as an educator? I ask this since some of the members are Inspectors while others are educators, and owners or run Home Inspection Schools. You asked the question regarding my inspection background. Now it is your turn to reply to this request."

Full time, defined as working more that 8 hours a day either doing inspections, marketing my services or attending NACHI Chapter meetings (or being on this board?) since Jan 15th, 2005. Clear answer.

Care to answer it for yourself. How many inspections have you done as a ‘state licened’ Home Inspection in New York State in the last year?

BTW: As far as I am concened, there is a difference between Home Inspector NACHI members and vendor members. Just my opinion. Hokme Inspectors actually do home inspections and derive all their income from that. Vendor members join in order to ‘sell’ working home inspectors their goods and services. So, I see a difference between myself and other working inspectors and those who just want me to buy something, without actually doing home insepctions.

This is just and only my personal opinion, not that of NACHI, the MAB, the Education Committee or my Chapter.

Was it not you who, previously, lamented that there were so many ‘vendors’ on the education committee? I agree with your sentiments, if this is the case.

I have taught various subjects (Intro to Computer Science, Intro to Programming, Computer Architecture (of computers, not buildings), Intro to Database Design, UNIX scripting, Unix Systems Administration, Advanced Administration, Advanced Database Programming, Physics 101, 102, 103, Intro to Optics, Intro to Quantum Mechanics, Electronics 204, Health Physics 302, Physics for Nuclear Medicine, Medical Thermography) at the University level.

I was rewiring houses (under a Master Electrician) when I was 8 years old. I, alone, swaped out my first fuse panel for a breaker panel (60 amp to 150 amp service), when I was 10 years old (and passed the Chicago Code inspection!). I helped two other people (the aforementioned Master Electrician and a Master Carpenter (framing and cabinet maker) build a house from scratch over the summer of 1966. I have (as of last year) over 200 hours of free ‘handyman’ work volunteered to various churches and synogouges in my area for older couples.

Please, don’t pull the old ‘Your just a new guy! You have no say!’ game with me.

Have you ever swung a hammer?

It’s been fun, but it’s also been tiring, Bill. I love a good argument, but you refuse to give me one. You merely provide ad hominim and fiat arguments. I have better arguments with my 12 year old daughter.

If you want the courses, you know the rules. Not mine, but NACHI’s.

If not, why all this bru-ha-hah?

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This is really getting interesting.

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It is tiresome.

Will has REPEATEDLY stated the reasons and the requirements to receive the information he has compiled.

If you choose to short-circuit the requirements and are then denied, you do NOT have the right to whine like a frustrated child.

Apparently, you do not.

Because it is frustrating your attempt to short-circuit the process, it MUST be fascist and unjust?

Then don’t.

But then do not have a temper tantrum when you do not achieve your objectives.

There are different ways to achieve things. Acting like a child and stomping your feet is rarely the way things get done.

Try acting like a chapter president instead.

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Will, is the course good for Canada??:slight_smile: We talked in Florida at the convention as you where showing some of us what you were working on (the CD). thanx

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NACHI Canada is included as well.

Contact Russ Myers.

I don’t make the decisions, I just work here.