Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
It’s wrong, it is in violation.
There are a number of codes that could be cited but just stick with the fact it will not trip when the test button is pushed, that alone warrants corrective action.
By the way GFCI breakers can not be back fed, they do not work that way.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: apfaff This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks Bob, I know its wrong. I guess I am just preparing some ammunition to answer specifics to the inevitable calls from agents, buyer, and seller. I was trying to figure out WTF they were thinking when wiring.
The buyer said that the seller was a home inspector!
I check the addy and stuff but no inspectors listed here, and seeing some of the simple violations lead me to believe it was a line from the agent trying to convince the buyer not to get a home inspection. 
Originally Posted By: pabernathy This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
EEKKS>>…And this person who did this can SLEEP at night…hmmm
As Bob said it is hard to pick a place to start but the FIRST place I would start would be to explain to the buyer that the GFCI does not work in that manner where it is wired backwards and protects the whole panel....not going to happen in that setup.
If they want to know how to do it right...they should call an Electrician because if they are trying to meet the CODE in having GFCI in the garage they are not going to achieve it this way...
Now.....as with me and Bob being electricians I will post what I would do...but again I do enhanced electrical because I am an electrician and i charge more for it...
Hmm....Maybe I just better not....post this over in the DIY forum I mod at and I will tell you how to fix it...lol...but as for HI's I would just explain the GFCI is not going to work as intended and not protect as it should. Beyond the other issues that one is enough to do the report on.
-- Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com
Originally Posted By: pabernathy This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
No problem my friend…just explain to them the protection they are afforded with a GFCI is not going to protect them in this installation because of the nature of the GFCI device. You recommend a licensed electrician review this and elaborate on the risks.
This way it leaves it UP to the client to take the next step.
P.S. I think you were right also......they said that JUST to escape a HI's noticing eye.....I can only imagine what else you probably found.
-- Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com
Originally Posted By: apfaff This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
P.S. I think you were right also......they said that JUST to escape a HI's noticing eye.....I can only imagine what else you probably found.
Too much, 224 photos on this one, some are for reference but my average number is around 120. If this is an indicator.
I feel bad for this client. This is the third home I have inspected for them. They are out of state and buying from Realtors recommended homes. I think their agent is trying to unload all their problem homes on them.
Originally Posted By: pabernathy This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
thats sad for the poor people…atleast that have someone like you looking out for the welfare of them…just hope they read your report very well…Keep up the great work…
Originally Posted By: pabernathy This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
well we stated that this panel as ENOUGH bad stuff going for it that we just did not want to go into ALL that could be possibly wrong with it as the GFCI issue is enough to warranty a recommendation to a Licensed Electrician first and formost.
From looking at the picture ( which is always a choir ) it seem that you are correct in that their is no seperate neutral and grounding bar(s)...it does seem like the fella ran the correct wire ( 4 Wire ) from what i can see so this panel CAN be saved.....If they get a Qualified Electrician to review it.
I think it is important for the HI to not go too deep into all the issues once they notice the MAIN issue.....so the can give the home owner or seller the choice to make that decision but most definatly YOU mark this as a Hazzard that needs review by a specialist.
-- Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com
Originally Posted By: bking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree that the neutral and ground strap error should be clearly stated on the report in all cases. The reason is that many electricians will not correct anything that is not on the report and many do not understand the neutral/ground issues. They are usually given the report and asked to correct what is on it.
If someone hires an electrician to test and evaluate the entire electrical system their labor bill could vary from $100 to $600 depending on the electrician's available time to spend at the job and his testing skills.
Consider this scenario, the seller has the items repaired in the report and the buyer hires a different inspector to do the reinspection and he finds the neutral strap there. This will require another service call and it makes you look bad too not just the first electrician.
Originally Posted By: pdickerson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
At the last NACHI chapter meeting I attended, there was a presentation by a master electrician. He said that when he is hired to correct electrical issues discovered by a home inspector, he goes in “with blinders on” and does not look at, mention, nor correct any other other electrical problems unless they create “such an obvious life safety hazard” that he couldn’t in good conscience not point it out. I always report on all of the electrical issue I find, and If I am concerned that I am missing some, I recommend further evaluation (sorry Jeff P., there it is again) by a licensed electrician. I never assume that by calling out something major in the panel, that the rest of the panel will be inspected and corrected as needed by the electrician hired to correct the major issue.
Originally Posted By: apfaff This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Paul, That what I was afraid of. I list a few, but say other problems may exist and needs further evaluation, including armature wiring and diagnosis of branch wiring, line tracing, load calculations, etc.
I often say it would take several hours to diagnose a system completely and requires special equipment not part of a general home inspection.
I disclaim that this is not a punch list for repairs!
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
pdickerson wrote:
If I am concerned that I am missing some, I recommend further evaluation (sorry Jeff P., there it is again) by a licensed electrician.
Nothing wrong with FE if you are unsure. . .
pdickerson wrote:
I never assume that by calling out something major in the panel, that the rest of the panel will be inspected and corrected as needed by the electrician hired to correct the major issue.
Nor should you assume this if you recommend further evaluation.
The statement of "Further Evaluation" should be followed up by "what" and "for."
Further Evaluation of (what = panel, breakers, wiring, system, etc.)
For = safety, performance, compliance (careful), integrity, etc.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
