Toilet Wax Ring.

[system]

Originally Posted By: ekartal
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

I went out for field training today (new construction) and the inspector told the client not to seal the area around the base of the toilet so you can tell if there is a leak. I personally would have suggested a thorough silicone seal so shower water etc; doesn’t get into the sub-floor. Comments appreciated.


Erol Kartal

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: Russell Stephens
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Not only shower water but what about having to clean up after an over flow of the toilet. Caulking would definatly make it easier to clean and sanitize.

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

If the commode is on a slab then I would say caulk is fine. On a subfloor of plywood though, maybe your mentor has a good point.

---

–
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

[system]

Originally Posted By: dvalley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

I personally think that the silicone will prevent you from noticing any future toilet leaks, as stated. If this area is sealed with silicone, I would definitely make it a point to inspect my sub floor periodically.


If that much water is getting on your bathroom floor that you have to worry about it seeping under the toilet area, I would correct the situation where the water is coming from verses sealing around the toilet.
I totally agree with your mentor! 

Good luck on your training Erol

---

--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

[system]

Originally Posted By: Brad
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

My rule of thumb on caulking anything: if you caulk it, you gotta maintain it. If its a bad caulk job, it will look like a horrible caulk job when it gets dirty. With that being said, caulk only when necessary…caulking a toilet to the floor is not necessary.


A word of caution: don't be fooled into thinking that just because its not caulked you'll know if its lost its seal and is leaking. Checking the underside or pulling the toilet is the only guaranteed way of finding out.

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: wcampbell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

I was told once by a plumber that on tile floors it was manditory to cement or caulk the base of the toilet.

---

–
This Ole House-Home Inspections


William A. Campbell TREC # 6372


Serving the Texas Coastal Bend


(361) 727-0602 (home)


(361) 727-0055 (office)


(361) 229-4103 (cell)

[system]

Originally Posted By: dvalley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Will,


Caulking the base of a toilet does nothing. It's useless. Just make sure the bolts at the toilet base are tight and you're good to go. Other than that, caulking is a waste of time and effort to install. If I'm wrong, I would like a plumber to correct me and tell me the concept of caulking this area.

If you inspect your subfloor periodically for water stains beneath your bathroom, you will be maintaining your toilet appropriately. Same goes for the kitchen sink.

Good Luck 

---

--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

[system]

Originally Posted By: Joe DiGiacomo
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

You are correct the caulk does nothing in the sealing of gases, however it does a great deal in distributing weight over any unevenness of the china or the floor so that there are no concentrated stress points that can cause cracking of the bowl. I personally (few times I have installed one) use a grout mix and tool it with a sponge, like tile grouting, then seal it with a silicone sealer.

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Joe D.


I dispute your claim that caulking does anything structural around the toilet other than hide sloppy work. Caulking certainly does not provide any structural integrity to the toilet because caulk is flexible. If the toilet is moving around than you have to go back and correct the situation that is allowing it to move. If you take the weight of the toilet plus the A$$E$ that will be sitting on it, caulk will provide enough time for the floor to be ruined because the wax ring was squeezed out which allowed it to leak.

IMHO, caulk has its place and under the toilet is not one of them.

Joe Myers

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: Joe DiGiacomo
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Joe M, did you ever hear of structural silicone glass where the glass is held in place by silicone on a multi story building. Some silicone caulks are very strong and do well under compression. The bottom of toilet bowls are not machined flat during or after production and as the clay is fired can distort. Also when is the last time you saw a perfectly level tile floor? I prefer using a grout placed between the fixture and floor. Whether using grout or a hi compression silicone, a job is only as good as you make it. Not putting anything between the china and floor sounds more to me like being lazy.

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Joe D.


I really doubt that plumbers know what high compression silicone is. Giving them the benefit of the doubt that they know what it is, I really doubt that any would know where to buy it, or what to use it for once they did buy it. 

Typically, when you see silicone under the toilet, you can bet it was the same silicone they used around the tub or shower because that is what they had left over.

I do agree with you about the tile floor and the toilet not being perfectly level but most descent plumbers that I know shim it, they don't use caulk.

Joe Myers

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: Joe DiGiacomo
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Joe M, your probably right, I mean they are the ones that cut half the structure out of the house to run their pipes, sorry I gave them too much credit. Like I said, I prefer to use a little grout, no shrinking or flex and creates a nice clean seal around china. I am curious, what do your plumber friends use to shim it with???

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: Brad
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Most plumbers carry small plastic shims (about 1/4 the size of popsicle stick) that are designed for this purpose.

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Robert,


Not trying to bust Brad's bubble here but I have seen it all, popsicle sticks (no, not the little plastic one's he is talking about. The actual wooden ones), door and window shims, pencils, cardboard, other pieces of tile and pieces of cloth. Those are just a few of the better ones! You should see what they use when the get really desperate! 

Now if you wanna see funny, you should see it when the plumber forgets to take out the rag they stuck down there before they set the toilet on the flange. 

Joe Myers

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: dvalley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Do they use coins too?


Well, so much for shimming toilets.

---

–
David Valley


MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

[system]

Originally Posted By: Brad
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Don’t take my word for it…this is the “correct” product for shimming toilets:


http://doityourself.com/store/6145809.htm

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Brad,


There is no doubt as to the correctness of your statement about shimming toilets. My point was that in the 23+ years that I have been working on and inspecting homes I have to yet find ONE toilet where they used those plastic shims that you mentioned. 

I was not doubting you, just have not found any yet!

Joe Myers

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: arosenbaum
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

The master plumber I work with sometimes uses regular metal washers if he doesn’t have any of those toilet shims that Brad put up.


I don't use caulk around the toilet, I use silicone  Some codes (like in Minneapolis) you need caulking around the toilet. The silicone seems to work easier and much cleaner then those huge tubes of caulking. There are pros and cons to using caulking. One con is you won't see the water from coming out from the bottom. If the toilet is in the basement, I would caulk about 90 percent of it, and leave maybe a few inches in the back uncaulked, for leaking purposes... If the toilet is on the main level or higher, then caulking all around wouldn't be bad. It DOES help stabilize it and if the toilet does leak from the wax ring, you will find it pretty quick when you see stains on the ceiling below. Like I said, some cities REQUIRE it to be caulked...

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: arosenbaum
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

jmyers wrote:

Robert, ...You should see it when the plumber forgets to take out the rag they stuck down there before they set the toilet on the flange... 

I haven't done that personally yet, because I usually clean around the flange, but plumbers are only human. They do make mistakes.

---

[system]

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.

---

Aaron,


Has Minn. ever stated the reasoning behind the code which requires you to put silicone under the toilet?

BTW...from personal experience. I can say with a fair amount of certainty that the silicone around the base of the toilet will only allow the toilet to be stable long enough for the plumber to drive away in their vehicle. Not that I doubt your professional experience but in my personal experience silicone is a short term solution to a long term problem.

Maybe they are afraid the bathroom floor will get contaminated if the toilet leaks. Sure I can understand that, it is much better to ruin the flooring, subflooring and ceilings than it is to have all that fecal matter on the bathroom floor. 

Joe Myers

---