Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I’m surprised there is not more talk about radon especially on a HI message board. Since I got certified, radon tests make up approx. 25-30% of my business income. IMHO it’s only a matter of time before radon testing is a state requirement for all real estate transactions. Like mold, which is already being scrutinized in legislature, radon is bound to become more and more recognized as a serious health threat. Although most inspection companies I see listed offer radon testing, I wonder what the percetage is that perform them or sub out the testing. Getting certified, in Pa at least, is by no means an easy task. If I had to do it over again I’d probably think twice but now that it’s over I’m glad I did it. If anyone has any queries about radon I’d be happy to assist any way I can…Bob
Originally Posted By: Daniel Keogh This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob I agree that gettng a radon liecence is a pane but well worth it. I’ m not sure that radon testing will ever be requiered, but it does add a significant percenage to our bottom line. I also have taken note at how many Inspectors offer Radon testing. Certainly much more than are listed with the EPA as ceritfied testers. My guess is only a small percentage are subing out the test and that most are doing the test illigaly. Witch would account for the silence on the issue. I fear that many of the members of this asso. are doing the test and are no certifed. I hope that they realize that they ar hurting there asso. and giving merit to the critisim that some other asso. have of NACHI.
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I too am EPA certified. The EPA is technically out of the certification business. They do it thru outside orgs, like NRSB. That’s who I am certified with.
As far as testing goes, there is currently no requirement for certification of any type in NY. Not so in NJ. So, in NY, to do a test, just buy the canisters or lease the CRM and you're off... Doesn't mean you know how to correctly perform the test, but hey, that never stopped anyone from doing what they should be educated in...
The EPA hasn't helped the radon situation either. As they have all but abandoned the issue, they have lessened the importance of testing. There is also a movement afoot stating that the EPA officially took radon off the list of known carcinogens as of 1998. This was told to me by two ASHI-certified inspectors (and full members).
If anyone needs assistance or has questions on the subject, I, too, am available...
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hey, a reply to my own reply!
The EPA is kind of sitting on the fence with the radon issue
Check out http://www.epa.gov/iaq/radon/radonqa1.html#faq1 for some "definitive" information from the EPA site. Funny, I'm more confused not than before...
The major studies conducted relied on coal miners for medical data. The fellow who certified us was one of THE folks who actually went in to the mines at the time to take the measurements. The Dept of Energy and the Atomic Energy Commission did the studies. Now the resullts are being questioned ad a high number of cancer victims were also, apparently, heavy smokers as well. The link I point to earlier has some good background data, but is somewhat confusing as to what it is saying.
Bottom line is that radon can always be mitigated from a home. The key is a proper test. I sometimes suggest that, if the buyer has their heart set on the house no matter what, that we perform a follow-up test once they are in te home. An initial test is fine, but in order for it to be valid, closed house conditions need to be established 122-hours before the test, and during the 48 hours of the test. I explain that test results can be skewed by opening windows or turning on fans. If they really want to be sure, conduct a follow-up test where THEY control the conditions. I give them a slight break on the two tests (4 canisters)...
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hey, a reply to my own reply!
The EPA is kind of sitting on the fence with the radon issue
Check out http://www.epa.gov/iaq/radon/radonqa1.html#faq1 for some "definitive" information from the EPA site. Funny, I'm more confused not than before...
The major studies conducted relied on coal miners for medical data. The fellow who certified us was one of THE folks who actually went in to the mines at the time to take the measurements. The Dept of Energy and the Atomic Energy Commission did the studies. Now the resullts are being questioned ad a high number of cancer victims were also, apparently, heavy smokers as well. The link I point to earlier has some good background data, but is somewhat confusing as to what it is saying.
Bottom line is that radon can always be mitigated from a home. The key is a proper test. I sometimes suggest that, if the buyer has their heart set on the house no matter what, that we perform a follow-up test once they are in te home. An initial test is fine, but in order for it to be valid, closed house conditions need to be established 12-hours before the test, and during the 48 hours of the test. I explain that test results can be skewed by opening windows or turning on fans. If they really want to be sure, conduct a follow-up test where THEY control the conditions. I give them a slight break on the two tests (4 canisters)...
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I think the silence on the radon subject is one that, “there is only so much you need to know”. How much more do you really need to discuss about radon. Is there any new requirements being published? Are there any new standards in place? …you get the point.
Once you are certified are you not at the top of the field? Are you going for the full PHD on the subject?
I think it is in very poor taste to incinuate others are doing so illegally on this message board or anywhere else. Who knows, maybe other inspectors are sub contracting their radon work so they have more time to make money doing inspections.
One should be sure to make certain the "brain is in gear before setting the mouth in motion". While you may not be doing so purposefully, demeaning others in your association also hurts your association!
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Actually, IMHO I believe there is quite a lot to be said about radon, especially the fact that so many clients are totally unaware of any statistics about it and how it may affect their health. One reason I decided to get certified was the sense of doing a job that means more than just extra income but also educating and helping people. As far as performing illegal tests, I don’t know nor do I care, but let the man have his opinion, freedom of speech right! As I said before, I believe radon has as much validity as mold if not more when it comes to health issues and is only a matter of time before it becomes mandatory for a real estate transaction. It’s already mandatory in schools and other public buildings. It’s not as if I were trying to force the issue on anyone but hey, if you’re not interested in the subject by all means pass it up, the next post is only a mouse click away!
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeff, First contact the PaDEP at 1-800-RADON or (717) 783-3594 and ask them to send you the “Pennsylvania Radon Certification Guide”. It will tell you step by step how to get certified…Bob
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob,
You know all those bad, horrible and disgusting things I said about you.
I take them all back. I like you, you are funny!
Oppsss, that was not you I said them too!! Oh crapola....
Sorry
Not that I am trying to bust your bubble Bob....but when they decide exactly what it will do to my clients I will certainly inform my clients. This is along the line of the little white mice that get cancer in the laboratory. Why sure smoking increases the risk....but why do all smokers not get cancer? I am seeing the same thing with radon....sure it increases your risk....but why is not everyone that has high levels of radon get cancer?
Please inform me when they find the answer, anything other than this is just being redundant
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
That’s an easy one. All smokers don’t get cancer because they usually die from heart disease, emphysema, or any number of other things before they get a chance. EPA states that 14-15,000 deaths a year are contributed directly to radon. Not radon and smoking, RADON alone! It’s the second cause of lung cancer in the U.S after smoking. When I share these facts with my clients their eyes pop out. Most have no clue what the facts are and some never even heard of radon. When I perform radon tests for clients with little tots and determine their results are very low or are high and require mitigation, I feel I have done them a great justice. I at one time thought radon was just hype until I took the training to get certified. When you learn how the radon atoms decay and explode in your lungs and destroy the soft tissue it starts to sink in. To sum it up, Doesn’t it feel good to inspect someones home and know your giving them peace of mind? well, imagine thinking that you may be prolonging their life too!
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Well Bob,
I would certainly buy into that theory except for one important fact. The smokers that die from smoking are catagorized into different illnesses which contribute to their death. I am talking about the ones that have smoked longer than you and I have been on the earth and have no signs of cancer. BTW...some of those smokers that die from other illnesses
"related" to smoking never get cancer either.
Radon is absolutely the same thing, said differently. When they can tell me why everyone is not dying from radon, especially the smokers, I will start listening. Until then I will just have to believe God is going to take me when he wants and there is absoutely nothing anyone can do to stop him. I know God loves me, he watches over me ever time I work on my electric panel! 
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe, Sounds like you’re one of them crazy kind of guys that likes to tempt fate. I would’nt worry to much about radon either if I were you. Hey, what’s life without risks right? Anyway, smoking and radon, even though they are both KNOWN to cause cancer are two totally different things. I’m just going with the facts, and if I can make a living and help someone at the same time well, twice the pleasure. AND, at approx 25-30% of my business I’m not arguing with the facts. I haven’t tested one home yet that was over the EPA recommendation that did’nt get their home mitigated. One things for certain, a lot of people don’t want to take the chance with their children’s lives and hope there’s nothing to radon. $125 is a verrry small price to pay for peace of mind! P.S. Joe, did you happen to work at Home Depot at one time? I worked with Joe Myers a few years back!
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe M,
"I think it is in very poor taste to incinuate others are doing so illegally on this message board or anywhere else. Who knows, maybe other inspectors are sub contracting their radon work so they have more time to make money doing inspections.
One should be sure to make certain the "brain is in gear before setting the mouth in motion". While you may not be doing so purposefully, demeaning others in your association also hurts your association! "
Who were you aiming at with regard to these comments? If it was me, I was in no way insinuate that anyone was doing anything illegally, nor was I slamming anyone in the org. To the contrary, I stated that there were no requirements for certifications in NY, but not so in NJ. And, as we all know, there are folks out there that don't know what they're doing, but they do it anyway. If you know how to properly perform the test and what the meaning of the results are, then fine... But, if you dont, well, you can understand my point.
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe M,
Nevermind... I read back and see that it may have been someone else who evoked your wrath...
As far as illegal things are concerned... the thing that bugs me more than anything, are some realtors and homeowners that purposely skew the radon test results to hide what may or may not be there. Regardless what anyone of us believes the danger to truly be, many buyers are afraid of radon, not realizing that it can be mitigated.
The real issue becomes the person who opens the house after the test has begin, or has placed fans to increase the airflow, or has attempted to move the canisters to a location that is out of the basement.
When I think of this practice, it makes my blood boil. Even if radon is someday found to only affect a small percentage of those exposed to more than 4pc/l, would any of us risk our sons, or daughters on this statistical data. For anyone to deny a buyer an accurate test result to preserve a sale, is reprehensible.
So, even if you're not carrying a certification, educate yourself as to what radon is and is not. It's the least we can do if we are performing the tests...
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hello Joe F.
No, it was not you that invoked "my wrath", so to speak. As you can probably tell I am a pretty straight forward person, although I do not try to hurt others with my straight forwardness.
As for the realtors or home owners tampering with the radon tests, I believe NACHI has plans available that you can make your own tamper proof containers that would alert you if the tests have been tampered with. Call up our fearless leader, I am sure he can help you out if you wish.
Hello Bob,
Sorry, I never worked for home depot, although the little lady sometimes has me thinking I live there, I frequent the place so much! 
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER let your significant other know you can do all those jobs around the house....in the end you will always get a two page list of more things to do. 
BTW...I think everyone tempts fate to some degree every day just by living. Maybe I am crazy....I dunno....what do you think?
Be careful when you tell your E & O carrier how much radon testing adds to your bottom line because they usually limit that type of testing to around 15% of your gross profits! Just make sure it really is adding that much to your gross...before you tell them it is.
As for Radon testing, check out FREA (again). They'll even indemnify you for THAT (for a fet $$ more, of course). Their rider for termite inspections is well worth the money. Just finished NY DEC pesticide training, with a specialty in WDI and termites, in particular. Great stuff. Here in NY, in order to fill out the WDI form (officially), you need a certification as a pest control technicial, with a specialty specifically in termites...
Also got info on Carpenter Ants, Carpenter Bees, Rodents, Beetles, Baiting, Treatment, Construction Practices, Prevention, Control, INSPECTIONS, etc... 
Joe
And BTW... I figured out that you were a straight shooter from our first conversation. I'm the same way. Sometimes it gets me in hot water, Most of the time, it doesnt. What's your schedule like for next week? I finally got a break after Monday...
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote from Joe M: NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER let your significant other know you can do all those jobs around the house…in the end you will always get a two page list of more things to do.
Are you kidding? My wife knows I was in construction for over 20 years. She not only hounds me to fix things, she wants the works! New Kitchen, Addition, Finished Basement, you get the picture!
P.S. BTW, did I say radon was 30% of the business? silly me I meant 10%. I'm lousy at math!