Who's being reasonable?

Originally Posted By: mboyett
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?. I just don?t want to have to think through this on every item I write up for her. I?m thinking maybe one paragraph at the beginning of the report explaining that many older homes may not have the latest construction methods and that the items noted in the report typically reflect the current building practices and requirements.


Am I being unreasonable or is she?


--
Mike Boyett
Capital City Inspections
Austin, Tx
www.capcityinspections.com

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all,


Michael, this is the issue that I guess we all think about all of the time.

Here's my take on it and how I deal with it. If there are immediate safety concerns like missing handrails, and no GFCI's I write those up as defects needing immediate repairs (I don't care if they were not "code" when the home was built they make sense) on issues like maybe the drain pan under a washer or similar I do not write up the lack of them as a defect, but I sure as hell recommend that the buyer "considers" installing them to prevent future problems. I guess now that I'm thinking about it a lot of my reporting would be advisory rather than requirements.

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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mboyett wrote:
One particular realtor that recommends me quite often has expressed some concerns to me regarding how I write up certain items in need of repair. She specializes in condos around a large university and many of these condos were built in the ?70?s and early ?80?s. When I call out things like stairway railings >4? apart, lack of safety pans under water heaters on upper floors, lack of GFCI protection near wet areas, etc?now that I think about it, I guess pretty much everything I write up?her position is ?Well, all condos built in this area during that time are like that?.


Many ancient cave dwellings had a bonfire in the living space. No longer an acceptable practice either.

mboyett wrote:
It?s almost as if she is saying since they are all like that and are older places then those deficiencies are to be expected and are OK to ignore.



I disagree with this interpretation. I don't think she is saying that, because you go on to say...


mboyett wrote:
She wants me to say something to the effect of ?Although common for the age of the homes in this area?.such and such needs to be repaired?to conform to today?s building practices?.


Personally, it does not seem to me to be a bad compromise for a real estate agent who has been referring many people to you, as you stated. You are still doing your job and pointing out the defects and recommending repair. It does not appear that this part of the report is she asking to change.

To preface your remarks that such and such was common practice during a particular period of time but is no longer considered safe and should be repaired might be extra work, but for someone who gives you a bunch of referrals, it may be worth the extra effort.

Just my opinion.


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Quote:
* This item or component warrants additional attention, repair and/or monitoring.

(1) Recommend evaluation by a qualified licensed structural engineer / geotechnical engineer.

(2) Recommend further review and repairs as needed by a qualified licensed contractor or specialty tradesman dealing with that item or system.

(3) Recommend further review for the presence of any wood destroying pests or organisms by a qualified Pest Inspector.

(4) This item is a safety hazard - correction is needed.

(5) Recommend upgrading for safety enhancement. This building may have been constructed before current safety standards were developed.


The items you are talking about would be indicated by (5)


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: bkelly1
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yadayadayada…consistent with age of home, consider updating to current codes.


Originally Posted By: tpope
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Hey Mike,


I don’t see any real harm with you just adding a paragraph like you mentioned. But, really you shouldn’t have to water down your report. She’s the salesperson. Let her sell it to the client anyway she wants to word it. icon_wink.gif



Timothy Pope


www.craftsmaninspections.com


Austin, Tx Home Inspections

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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jbushart wrote:

Many ancient cave dwellings had a bonfire in the living space. No longer an acceptable practice either.


This is still allowed under IRC- R1006, Natural cave ventilation. ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: evandeven
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mboyett wrote:
One particular realtor that recommends me quite often has expressed some concerns to me regarding how I write up certain items in need of repair. She specializes in condos around a large university and many of these condos were built in the ?70?s and early ?80?s. When I call out things like stairway railings >4? apart, lack of safety pans under water heaters on upper floors, lack of GFCI protection near wet areas, etc?now that I think about it, I guess pretty much everything I write up?her position is ?Well, all condos built in this area during that time are like that?. It?s almost as if she is saying since they are all like that and are older places then those deficiencies are to be expected and are OK to ignore. I know she is just trying to soften the impact that some of these recommended repairs may have on the buyer but I find it difficult to agree that I need to preface each item with some type of disclaimer. She wants me to say something to the effect of ?Although common for the age of the homes in this area?.such and such needs to be repaired?to conform to today?s building practices?. I just don?t want to have to think through this on every item I write up for her. I?m thinking maybe one paragraph at the beginning of the report explaining that many older homes may not have the latest construction methods and that the items noted in the report typically reflect the current building practices and requirements.

Am I being unreasonable or is she?


It would depend on your reporting method.

I write up deficiencies. I may make notations about certain things, but if I am not 100% sure they are wrong, I don't write them up as an item in need of repair.

The place was built in the 70s or early 80s. Before you go writing up that G.F.I. protection is required, you had better be sure what year it was built, and what code was adopted at the time. Same goes for the handrails and anything else pertaining to code. Legally you may not have the authority to state that something is in need of repair, when in fact, it met the code when the place was built and hasn't been touched. Therefore, it still meets code and no repair is required.

You may want to note it as a possible safety hazard and possibly not conforming to the existing building code, but you had better be sure.


--
Eric Van De Ven
Owner/Inspector
Magnum Inspections Inc.
I get paid to be suspicious when there is nothing to be suspicious about!
www.magnuminspections.com

Originally Posted By: mtimpani
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Jeff, ITA should update thier #5 to your #5. I like that.



Thank you, MarkTimpani


www.pridepropertyinspections.com

Originally Posted By: tpope
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missing or non functioning GFCI protection must be reported as in need of repair, regardless of what code was in effect at the time the house was built. Same goes for handrails.



Timothy Pope


www.craftsmaninspections.com


Austin, Tx Home Inspections

Originally Posted By: jmertins
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Sometimes I read our own posts here and many of us, including myself, feel we are there to tell people what to do with the house, sale, purchase, etc, etc, etc,. Are we not there to prepare a written report on the condition of the property and bring this information to our client so THEY can make a better decison on if they will proceed with the home?



John Mertins


Baxter Home Inspections, Inc.

"Greatness courts failure"

Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy

Originally Posted By: evandeven
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tpope wrote:
Eric,
In Texas, any missing or non functioning GFCI protection must be reported as in need of repair, regardless of what code was in effect at the time the house was built. Same goes for handrails.


That is Texas. I know California has similar rules. Florida does not.
If Texas requires that it be repaired, then write it up and let the Agent know why. "It says so right here, I have to recommend repair as per the SoPs."

I wish that Florida would adopt the same sort of guidelines that Texas has. It would make things easier.


--
Eric Van De Ven
Owner/Inspector
Magnum Inspections Inc.
I get paid to be suspicious when there is nothing to be suspicious about!
www.magnuminspections.com

Originally Posted By: gbell
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I would have to agree. I wish we would follow Texas also.



Greg Bell


Bell Inspection Service

Originally Posted By: jpope
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mtimpani wrote:
Jeff, ITA should update thier #5 to your #5. I like that.


Mark - That is part of my ITA reporting. The Matrix offers several variations in their library.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: mtimpani
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say it. Thanks for pointing this out. I always wondered why 4 and 5 state safety issues, but now I understand. Thanks again



Thank you, MarkTimpani


www.pridepropertyinspections.com

Originally Posted By: awalters
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Before I start the walk through, I usually say something like “Health and safety issues are not grandfathered. I am required by TREC to report these items. If I want to do inspections tomorrow, I have to inform you about these items today. No one can force you to upgrade, but I have to make you aware”


I have never had a realtor balk after that was said. They are licensed by the same entity and are required to disclose certain items too. They will understand it if you put in in those terms.

What I really love is new construction. I have had builders tell me "Well, that's not the way we do it here" I politely keep going and later inform the client that according to Texas House Bill XXX it is supposed to be done this way under IRC.