Originally Posted By: jpope
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remove covers
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”
(661) 212-0738
remove covers
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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| jpope wrote: |
| You guys gettin' bored with my electrical posts yet? |
Negative ... very educational Jeff. I think you post a lot of excellent stuff for discussion. Plus you post pics with your comments/questions which I think is extremely helpful. Keep up the good work Jeff ... 
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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: Randy Flockton
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I’m looking really close at this… it appears that the branch circuit wiring is type AC (armor clad) cable… This peticular wire assembly has a small ribbon or copper or aluminum that goes through the assembly & should be wrapped abound the outside sheath at terminations (You can see a small piece of it, not where its supposed to be on the 3rd pic)… The AC connector then hold the AC while creating a bond between this ribbon & the (hopefully) bonded metal panel can.
As a subpanel, the "neutral should not be bonded to the panel can… As I see no ground wires, a ground bus would not be required… More than likely grounding of the subpanel itself is being relied on by flex (or greenfield for you east coasters), but I can’t tell for sure… I typically pull a ground anyways even in EMT for redundancy should a coupling or connector come loose…
-Randy
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"Prices subject to change with customers additude"
Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Jeff…
I can't see the bonding jumper or screw on the neutral bar (and don't want to). Was this in a condo in a 3 or more story block (conduit grounding)? There are other issues, paint, that paper(?) sheathing etc, but for a condo sub-panel, the actual connected wiring looks OK.
I'm sure I'm missing something!
PS...never bored with this stuff!
I propose NACHI starts a course for dry-wall texture appliers. I think about 8 hours of "Tape The Damn Panel You MORON!" repeated over and over might get the point across to maybe half of them.
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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
This ill fitting screw went clean through the terminal to the box. Otherwise, the terminal was isolated.
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: rmoore
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See…I told you I was missing something. Will get my prescription checked!
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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| rmoore wrote: |
| I propose NACHI starts a course for dry-wall texture appliers. I think about 8 hours of "Tape The Damn Panel You MORON!" repeated over and over might get the point across to maybe half of them. |
I doubt it, I find threats of physical violence are the most effective solution at least with painters. 
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Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| rmoore wrote: |
| I propose NACHI starts a course for dry-wall texture appliers. I think about 8 hours of "Tape The Damn Panel You MORON!" repeated over and over might get the point across to maybe half of them. |
No, it is the electricians who must protect their work. IF they are even bothering to protect it.
If they are, then they are not using adequate protective means to do so. No, stuffing waded up newspaper into recessed lights, exhaust fans and panelboards is not "adequate" protection, that stuff falls out. Most are now coming with cardboard protective inserts, and if that is not staying in place, duct tape it in place. Unless the electrician has gone to the trouble to make sure the the protection stays in place, it is not the drywaller or painters fault. Now, if the electrician HAS taped and secured the protection in place, and it has been intentionally removed, cut, or ripped out, then, yes, it is not the electricians fault.
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: jane molina
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Jeff
I think you post a lot of excellent stuff , Keep up the good work Jeff .
One ? , What is the ruling on a sub panelas far as there neutral wires.
A saub panels neutral wire must have it’s own buss bar inside the sub panel to hook up the neutral . it can not go to the main it must be seperate right.
Is anyone esle having trouble attatching pictures than me ?
Jane[/b]
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| jpeck wrote: |
| No, it is the electricians who must protect their work. IF they are even bothering to protect it. |
I am sure this is a regional thing but around here the painters are held financially responsible for where their paint that they are spraying falls.
I am not talking about any union contract I am talking about job specifications.
On most of the jobs I work it is like a "you break it you buy it" policy.
It is funny many people think the electricians should be the ones to mask their equipment these same people do not expect the glazers to mask the glass, the carpenters to mask the woodwork or the carpet guy to mask the rug. 
Just how i works in my neck of the woods.
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Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
Originally Posted By: rmoore
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| jpeck wrote: |
| Unless the electrician has gone to the trouble to make sure the the protection stays in place, it is not the drywaller or painters fault. |
Sorry Jerry, but I have to disagree. Anyone (an inspector?) could have removed the cardboard cover. Even if it isn't the painter's job to apply the protection to the panel, surely it is still their job to ensure the room is ready for spraying. If the union rules prohibit them from taping the panel then REPORT it and take a break. No excuse for just going ahead and pulling the trigger.
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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| rmoore wrote: | ||
Sorry Jerry, but I have to disagree. Anyone (an inspector?) could have removed the cardboard cover. Even if it isn't the painter's job to apply the protection to the panel, surely it is still their job to ensure the room is ready for spraying. If the union rules prohibit them from taping the panel then REPORT it and take a break. No excuse for just going ahead and pulling the trigger. |
Guess you must have missed my last sentence?
| jpeck wrote: |
| Now, if the electrician HAS taped and secured the protection in place, and it has been intentionally removed, cut, or ripped out, then, yes, it is not the electricians fault. |
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work.
Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.
© Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues. There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent; cut; or deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating.
Now, excuse me, but that is from the National ELECTRICAL Code, not the painters code.
"(C) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, ... " This is directed TO THE ELECTRICIAN.
Now, IF the protective cover is removed, torn, etc. ... go back and read the last sentence of my other post about IF
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Jerry…
What started out as a light-hearted jab at painters has evolved into this?
I did read your posts carefully. If you will read mine the same way you will see that I don't really care who should be applying the protection. The simple fact is that when the guy with the texture sprayer is the only one in the room and faced with an obviously unprotected panel he needs to stop. If it's necessary to call the electrician back, fine. If he can tape it himself, fine. To just go ahead and ruin a panel, or create a possibly hazardous situation for the homeowner, NOT FINE!
Blame the electrician as well if you must but the "It's not my job" excuse does not absolve the painter from fault for the damage caused.
Enough...any more and I will have to drag out my box of dumb analogies. 
--
Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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| rmoore wrote: |
|
Enough...any more and I will have to drag out my box of dumb analogies.  |
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Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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“No, it is the electricians who must protect their work”
The only approved method that I know is the panel cover. That is all that I provide.
This panel needs to be replaced or cleaned.
PS what about outlet and switch covers???
Jeff
You are extremely good (qualified). Try this instead. Refer to the panels as panel A or panel B. Do not use 'sub' panel. 
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: jpope
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| Mike Parks wrote: |
| Try this instead. Refer to the panels as panel A or panel B. Do not use 'sub' panel.  |
Thanks Mike,
Actually, in my reports, I do refer to them as A, B, C . . . and so on. In this case, I referred to it as the feeder panel for this unit (condo). The service panel was located outside the building.
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: jedwards
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And then there’s often fun to be found without removing covers…
Yes, apparently an enclosed junction box was just a little over $budget when extending the 2-wire circuits to the new 200 amp panel.
Don't even ask about the grounds. Seriously.
At least they used NM clamps...
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John Edwards
Assurance South, LLC home page
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