Originally Posted By: dvalley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Did a home inspection for an Electrician today and he told me something I never heard before.
I stated to him that the 40 amp LSE is not protected by a breaker at the SE. He told me that it doesn't have to be. Ten Foot Rule states that any LSE that is within 10 feet of a SE does not need to be protected by an individual breaker. It can be tapped.
This is news to me!!!
The LSE was tapped into a live lug just above the main SE breaker. I've been writing these up as "unprotected LSE" since day one.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
OK David it sounds like you may still have violations.
Now I know you are not 'code inspectors' but the easiest to give you the rules for taps is a simple cut and paste job.
Quote:
240.21(B) Feeder Taps
240.21(B)(1) Taps Not Over 3 m (10 ft) Long. Where the length of the tap conductors does not exceed 3 m (10 ft) and the tap conductors comply with all of the following:
(1)The ampacity of the tap conductors is
a.Not less than the combined computed loads on the circuits supplied by the tap conductors, and
b.Not less than the rating of the device supplied by the tap conductors or not less than the rating of the overcurrent-protective device at the termination of the tap conductors.
(2)The tap conductors do not extend beyond the switchboard, panelboard, disconnecting means, or control devices they supply.
(3)Except at the point of connection to the feeder, the tap conductors are enclosed in a raceway, which shall extend from the tap to the enclosure of an enclosed switchboard, panelboard, or control devices, or to the back of an open switchboard.
(4)For field installations where the tap conductors leave the enclosure or vault in which the tap is made, the rating of the overcurrent device on the line side of the tap conductors shall not exceed 10 times the ampacity of the tap
The 8 AWG sounds to small for the 60 amp breaker. {Note 240.21(B)(1)(1)(b) } If the breaker is a 40 or 50 amp (depending on the wiring method used) you are all set here.
If the tap conductors are NM or SE there is a violation of 240.21(B)(1) (3). The tap conductors must be in raceway.
I will be glad to keep bating this around with you here, I will check back soon.
Bob
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Sorry had to run out and start filling my girls wading pool, it’s gonna be hot one for us today.
dvalley wrote:
NM
Then there is a violation
Quote:
(3)Except at the point of connection to the feeder, the tap conductors are enclosed in a raceway, which shall extend from the tap to the enclosure of an enclosed switchboard, panelboard, or control devices, or to the back of an open switchboard
Beyond that the installation sounds OK.
Good luck.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: dvalley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ok, so I’m looking for conduit piping or some sort of protective raceway at any second service disconnect wiring…Right?
Not to include (LSE)sub panels. Right????
Yup, 97 degrees today. My kids have swimming lessons this morning then we're heading to the beach. This is my first Saturday off, since I opened my doors. Strange... because I work every Saturday. Nobody booked for today.
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Did we ever establish that this was connected to the load side of the 100a disconnect?
That is the real problem if it is on the line side. You then have an 8 ga NM SERVICE ENTRANCE conductor and the worms start crawling out of the can. We then end up in article 230, not 240 and the real fun begins.
Originally Posted By: bgentry This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I thought that by definition, “line side” is before the mains. correct me if I’m wrong here. So that would mean that if this “path” description is correct, it can’t be line side, but load side rather.
I think what Greg is trying to get accross is that any conductor that is not yet protected is considered SE and falls under those regs. That's why we need to know for sure where this tap is at.
-- Bradley S. Gentry
Superior Home Inspection, LLC
Harrisonburg, Charlottesville, &
Elkton, VA
www.superiorllc.net
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Correct line side is before the main.
In this case I believe David has a load side connection and that would make it a sub panel.
If it is a line side connection what you end up with is two service panels which can be done code compliantly also.
It is quite common on large houses to have a 400 amp service feeding two 200 amp panels which are both service panels. Both 200 amp breakers would have to be opened to kill all the power.
The NEC allows up to six service disconnects but they do have to be at one location.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
