That’s not quite correct. It doesn’t really mimic a residential standard at all. Read it: www.nachi.org/comsop.htm It is designed to satisfy most commercial inspection client’s needs.
It does however cater to a home inspector offering a commercial inspection on the most common commercial properties, those being: restaurants, strip malls, small apartment buildings, and warehouses. It was designed for them, which is why it includes all the forms, legal agreements, and checklists.
ASTM’s standard is not a standard of practice at all (despite its title). It is a Scope of Work permission form (which www.nachi.org/comsop.htm) has as well.
Here is the key paragraph in www.nachi.org/comsop.htm that will help you get your head around it. This would be absurd in a residential SOP. Why? Because it is assumed that the commercial building purchaser is a business person (and therefore can negotiate and decide upon what is to be inspected), not a consumer member of the public buying a home and relying on an association-delineated or state-mandated service that you and your client may not agree to deviate from.
I pay no usage fee and do not post it on my website or include it in my reports.
I have done about $75k in commercial inspections so far this year.
All ASTM, not COMSOP.
It’s what the clients’ attotneys request.
Your honor, I use an SOP that I don’t show anyone, don’t include in my reports to my client, and steal from the copyright holder. Can’t you just trust that I followed my SOP?
So you didn’t buy your SOP from ASTM, you got it from HomeGauge?
What is most interesting is NOT whether COMSOP is a useable standard. It is. However, many times, the standards to be used are dictated by attorneys, clients, banks, or insurance carriers.
Is COMSOP ever applicable? Likely yes, but for smaller engagements. i have said that for years. The standard one uuses when up to the person is their choice, and if they choose to follow COMSOP, that is their choice.
What I reject, however, is the continual characterization that ASTM E2018 is not a property condition assessment standard. That is nonsensical, as it is virtually the defacto standard. Even where banks and carriers develp their own inspection engine for commercial establishments, they are generally based on the ASTM format and model.
Yet, based on some of the postings, one would be lead to believe that COMSOP is the dominant standard, which it is clearly not.
Instead of trying to draw parallels or instances where one standard is more applicable than another (or may be viewed that way), the discussion has turned into an InterNACHI word dominance thing, which makes the claims of the org’s leaders look that much more foolish.
ASTM is known worldwide, among those professionals who conduct commercial inspections. It is known and embraced by lending institutions, insurance carriers, consultancies, architects, engineers, and yes… inspectors.
Technically, you stole it. But if you only read it, I wouldn’t worry about it. That really isn’t my point. My point is that ATSM doesn’t allow you to use it, teach to it, pass it out as a hand-out to students, reprint it, fax it, email it, post it, display it, or share it with anyone, including your own clients. LOL. It’s worthless.
Now Linas, who admits he uses it regularly but doesn’t pay ATSM anything, is truly stealing it.
Even the software company Linas uses, HomeGauge, has a warning on their instruction videos about ATSM.
Go here: Top-Rated Home Inspection Software | HomeGauge
Scroll down past the InterNACHI commercial template and stop at the ATSM one.
Click PLAY to play the video.
Hit your PAUSE button at about 15 seconds into the video.
Read the warning on the video that starts with the word ATTENTION.
Again, there are many reasons the International Standards of Practice for Inspecting Commercial Propertiesis the dominant commercial SOP for use by home inspectors and the overwhelmingly dominant commercial SOP in search engines like google (don’t take my word for it, do a google search for commercial inspection standards of practices ) Now some will argue that International Standards of Practice for Inspecting Commercial Properties - InterNACHI® is so popular because it is associated with InterNACHI, the world’s largest inspection trade association. Others will argue that International Standards of Practice for Inspecting Commercial Properties - InterNACHI® is so popular because it is the only commercial inspection course approved by state governments for home inspector continuing education is based on it. Others will argue that it is because I market it well. Others will argue it is because ATMS’s is outdated and doesn’t come with all the necessary forms, contracts, and checklists. Others will argue that International Standards of Practice for Inspecting Commercial Properties - InterNACHI® is so popular because it is vastly superior to its only competing SOP. But there is one other valid explanation: Its only competing commercial SOP can’t be legally posted on your website or given to your client. Which means referencing it in you commercial inspection contract invalidates your contract. ATSM’s commercial SOP really is completely worthless.
Home inspectors know this too. At least the ones who are into commercial inspections.
I teach a very popular commercial inspection course in Denver every two years. If I promoted that the course included ATSM E2018, it would be the kiss of death for the course attendance numbers.
I suspect this two-day course you are holding will be no different. Let us know how many tuition-paying students sign up. I’m not wishing you failure, I’ve just been doing this for a long time and can assure you that no one wants to pay to sit through a commercial class based on an SOP that is worthless.
Wrong and not true, come on Nick. ASTM allows usage but you have to pay an license fee. Same with Linas, he’s not stealing it. You can use the standard that you purchased and reference it in your scope of work. Why you throwing Linas under the bus like that?
Furthermore, it does not cost a fortune to purchase an limited license if one wants to send a copy to each client. Matter of fact it costs under $20 per copy.
Like you said, most clients do not care much about the SoP, they care about the scope of work.
This is all insane gibberish that most home inspectors here will not understand. The ASTM E2018 is the industry standard bar none.
I would love the COMSOP to be the industry accepted standard but its not. It has limitations. Look at the terms and wording in the COMSOP, it basically used the ASTM as a blueprint. Its like ASHI, NACHI used most of it as a blue print. NACHI is better than ASHI for many reasons now. Perhaps COMSOP could be better than the ASTM but you would have to listen to your NACHI members and overhaul it.
ASTM E2018 is industry standard. Perfectly legal and preferred. Just play by there rules and you will be fine. Want a copy then pay the $69. Want to give your clients hard copies, no problem you can buy them heavily discounted. Its a cost of doing business. $20 per copy is nothing when your making thousands on the jobs. Give ASTM there respect and due.
Your COMSOP is not free either. You have to be a member of NACHI. What’s that cost you now $499. So you do 25 commercial inspections per year and use the COMSOP that’s $20 per copy.
Sometimes Nick you go a little overboard because you are biased and that’s understandable but saying COMSOP is the industry standard is silly. Yes you can Google your terms where it ranks but you can Google Google and NACHI is not there. Furthermore, ASTM I can say they are doing ok and do not view COMSOP as a threat.
LOL. What idiot would pay over and over to use that half-century old piece of crap? By looking at my www.nachi.org/comsop.htm book sales, apparently very few.
BTW: You just proved my point. To get ATSM’s commercial SOP to even appear anywhere in a google search you had to contrive a search that doesn’t even include the words “commercial inspection standards of practice.” And none of the search results allowed me to read the SOP (Gee, I wonder why? LOL).
Again, don’t take my word for it. See what comes up when you go a google searchin’. Commercial building buyers all over the world do the same google search, and we all know what SOP they find. Same dominant one we all find.
LOL
ASTM has been the commercial building inspections standard for many years before COMSOP was made up for newbie home inspectors inspecting laundromats and porta-potties.
Let’s hear from some established commercial building inspectors who use COMSOP inspead of ASTM.
Hello???
Uh, let’s see. I run ComInspect. 3800+ commercial inspectors in it. Maybe more, I haven’t counted in a while.
Every governmental approval of a commercial inspection course ever issued (and there are many) are all for a course that is based solely on www.nachi.org/comsop.htm
When anyone does a google search (try it yourself if you don’t believe me) for commercial inspection standards of practice, all they find are links to www.nachi.org/comsop.htm
Linas, now that you’ve publicly confessed that you use ATSM’s intellectual property but never pay them a dime, even though you’ve admitted knowing you were supposed to be paying them all along (even the software company you use, HomeGauge, explained it to you in their template video)… will you be returning that stolen money to ATSM, donating it to charity, or keeping it?
Where did I confess that I never paid a dime for ASTM 2018?
I’ve used numerous ASTM Standards that I purchased for reference in our commercial inspection and infrared inspection contracts.
What Standards do you recommend for infrared roof or infrared building inspections?
Comsop is an illusion … much like the “we will buy your house back” and other gimmicks pushed by vendors. These things are all a part of a Hollywood set that is designed to impress and attract casual passers-by but when you get close enough to see that there is really nothing there, you have already been drawn in to become one of “3800”, and so on.
Meaningful reports will be written to standards that are recognized by more than just “3800” newbies that asked for and received their free booklet.
Training to inspect and report in a manner that meet these standards is being provided by the only association that can … NACBI.[/size]
Jim, you are clueless. One doesn’t “meet” ATSM’s standard because it isn’t a standards of practice. It doesn’t require you to do or not to do anything. Post ATSM’s SOP on your website and we can use it to discuss and I’ll show you all the flaws in this half-century old document.
That’s the beauty of www.nachi.org/comsop.htm It provides a baseline that is perfect for the most common commercial properties sold in the U.S. and Canada (skyscrapers and factories make up less than 1% of all commercial buildings).
It then uses a blank Scope of Work agreement so that you and your client can veer from the SOP to fit the building and the clients/wants & needs. Read 4.3 and 4.3.1
It allows you and your client to come to an agreement… on anything and everything.
Anyway, just mentioning ATSM’s standards (which no real commercial inspector is interested in using) is the kiss of death for any commercial inspection course (I should know, between live and online commercial inspection courses, InterNACHI administers nearly all of them)
Again, no one wants to pay for a commercial course based on an outdated (did they even have IR cameras in the 70’s), flawed standard that is missing all the contracts and forms and is illegal to provide to the client.
Don’t take my word for it. Ask the organizers of this course how many tuition-paying inspectors they have registered.
I’m not trying to put anyone’s course offerings down. All education is good. I’m just explaining that you can’t go upstream against the www.nachi.org/comsop.htm that blows 24/7. www.nachi.org/comsop.htm simply has too many advantages to overcome.
Every governmental approval of a commercial inspection course ever issued (and there are many) are all for a course that is based solely on www.nachi.org/comsop.htm
When anyone does a google search (try it yourself if you don’t believe me) for commercial inspection standards of practice, all they find are links to www.nachi.org/comsop.htm
Anyway, if you insist on trying to swim upstream… knock yourself out.
We offered it. I think we had a handful of signups and so it got cancelled. I put up all the money so I lost about $25K. If I recall, the room at the Marriott alone cost me $10K (I had to pre-pay for it).
But I didn’t cry. Look, lessons cost money and good ones cost lots. I learned a lot.
