Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate the help and advice.
If it’s not under the same lugs as the SEC’s (violation) and not under a circuit breaker then how is it connected?
I watched the video link JJ shared @jjonas thanks for the link! I can’t find anything noted in your photos that show why the bored hole and/or NM cable run is improper. There isn’t any reference measure from the edge of the member to the hole, the size of the bored hole itself, the size of the member, etc. Could you please explain as I’m now more confused as to why you’re noting this than I was before.
Did he point out to you where these extra ungrounded terminals that are not on breakers can be found?
I’m glad to see the discussion has returned to the original topic after the distraction of the silly name calling. Joshua, like you I come to this forum to learn more about how to do my job better. Surge protector in the service panel is something I have only seen in newer homes. I’ve had questions about their proper installation as well. As others have stated, I hope we can use this forum to share knowledge with others in a professional and respectful manner.
The OP’s question was answered in the very first response. His follow up question was answered promptly and directly as well. If you feel the information provided was inadequate, please feel free to fill in whatever details you found missing.
nice…
he did say something about this but it was in a very noisy location and I couldn’t understand him. Something about adding a custom lug or terminal to each bus bar. Looking at a panel, I’m not sure what he meant, exactly, but he did say that he usually uses breakers “for the convenience factor”, not because they’re required. No matter what amperage you choose for the breaker, they typically won’t trip during a surge because of the relatively short pulse time.
There are surge protector devices that allow direct (without dedicated breaker) bus installation by their manufacturers, here is one example:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-80-kA-Home-Electronics-Protective-Device-HEPD-HEPD80/203540660
manual:
I’m not sure how you would attach that to the bus of a residential panel.
Chuck, I hope you didn’t misinterpret my previous post. I respect your expertise; and I learn much from reading your comments. And yes, Joshua’s questions were answered promptly. I am only concerned that the forum got off topic and started following a rabbit trail that led to a few unneeded personal remarks. It’s my desire that we all can refrain from that behavior.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen one screwed to the bus. I don’t see any place to do that on this panel that wouldn’t occupy two breaker slots.
Rob
I can’t find torque settings but here is where:
EDIT: forgot to share source
https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_enDocType=Instruction+sheet&p_File_Name=NVE82551.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=NVE82551
Chuck addressed my question and the follow up question very fast and I am very thankful for that. I was just following up that I am a little ashamed that I didn’t know what it was. Electrical is where I have the least knowledge and I have been trying to fix that with reading the information provided here, how to training videos, and a book. If it is out of the ordinary in electrical I have difficulty.
No matter how long you do this, you will encounter things you haven’t seen before. Just add them to your knowledge base when you do. It’s what keeps it interesting.
I haven’t either, I rarely see them at all, when I do, however, they are either double-lugged with SEC or a breaker is used. They also make ones that install in the place of a 2pole breaker, takes up less space, no need for extra breaker.
You are going to start seeing them more in the upcoming years
Yeap, however, NY is still using NEC 2014 as of 2016… When is NEC2020 going to be adopted and enforced? (because next is NEC 2017 sometime in 2020) I think we’re sometime away. I do, however, believe it doesn’t hurt to recommend SPDs as an improvement just like GFCIs and AFCIs Let the client decide if they want to pay to get it installed. I, personally, use TYPE3 SPDs throughout my house because I don’t have whole house one yet.
Right, it sure is down the line in NY but maybe not the case everywhere. The building code is always behind current code revisions for the most part. I do a lot of commercial and government work and very often the prints call out “Current NEC code” as the standards that the architect and engineer are looking for. Sometimes they go so far as cherry picking sections and referencing them directly. I have been putting SPD’s on pretty much every commercial installation for a few years now and 100% of the government installations as they require lightning protection and UL calls for SPD’s as a part of a master label system. After seeing first hand what can happen in a catastrophic event (a storm hit and hundreds of houses lost their furnaces, Ranges, TV’s, computers etc…) I went and installed several of these in my office where the expensive equipment gets plugged in. https://www.hubbell.com/wiringdevice-kellems/en/Products/Electrical-Electronic/Power-Quality-Conversion/Surge-Protection-Receptacles/HBL5260SA/p/1640620
Tap rules? I’m not in Ohio but What is the difference in Ohio between lugged and tapped?