Today I had a job of trimming out windows while a rental unit is empty, so I figured I would practice some home inspecting since nobody was there. I found this breaker panel but I did not want to remove cover only because I seen breakers not listed for use in place and the rigged in cover plate, I just did not want to get to involved with removing dead front because if something went wrong I had no business even being near the panel. If this was a true home inspection I would have removed it but I still feel it could have been unsafe. Maybe I just don’t know enough about this brand of panel, but how could that 100amp listed Main on the right side possibly shut this down? Why would the main breaker slot be covered up? Or are we just dealing with a panel worked on by somebody who didn’t have a clue, I’m not picking on the last guy because obviously I don’t know much about this Crouse-Hinds panel either. I now wished I took the cover off to see inside for more of an education.
Morningh. Greg. Pleasure to meet you. Hope to find you well and in good spirits today.
Been some time that I had run across Crouse Hinds equipment. Here is what I have. Hopefully other inspectors will clean up any misinformation I have.
Corporate Lineage: Crouse-Hinds electrical panels and breakers were manufactured under the same umbrella as Murray and ITE.
Crouse-Hinds was acquired by Cooper Industries in 1981, which was subsequently purchased by Eaton Corporation in 2012. Crouse-Hinds has a convoluted history where portions were previously spun off, bought, and re-branded under the Siemens and Murray names.
As for the empty covered main break slot. The main breaker is likely backfeed. THat panel could have been a sub/remote panel at one time. The front would need to be removed to further evaluate.
Interesting I never gave a back feed a thought but I also know I never seen a main shut off outdoors. I looked up the year this property was built, in 1981 it said. Thanks for the help.
Right off the bat, as you has pointed out, I can see that the main disconnect is a Square D Homeline breaker. Square D explicitly designs and licenses them to be installed only inside Square D Homeline panels. They are not UL-Classified for installation in other branded panels.
At this point, along with the single gang blank wall plate used as a filler plate, I would have already decided that the panel be further evaluated by a licensed electrician. But, it’s always interesting to see what other hazards I can find behind the cover.
Richard, thank you about the SD Homeline breaker information, I did not know they should not be used in other panels.
I asked the owner if I could go back and practice and study inside the breaker panel and he was cool with it. So I understand the 100MB should have a hold down kit since it is used as a back fed, honestly I did not know nothing about this til I did some research but from what I could google is that I cannot see this bracket unless I pull out the breaker beside it, Am I right about that? Otherwise how could I tell it is mounted because I don’t think I saw a holdown bracket? Also I did not see a bonding screw, so I walked to the backside of the building to see if there was a main disconnect by the panels which there was not, unless I overlooked it being somewhere else. Could I maybe get some understanding on the missing bonding screw or is it just not right?
Bonding strap is located here at the red arrow.
Hold down kit come in a variety of styles
hold down kit for breaker - Search Images
Thanks Neil, nice catch. I looked right past it looking for the green screw
Good panel to practice on. It’s a mess.
Ha! Ha! It sure is, My brother in law has some new condos he’s building and this week the electrician is wrapping up the panels, I seen the main disconnects located outside near the meters and the interior of garages will be the sub-panels. I am going to check them out when he is finished. It’s nice to see the bad next to the good to see the differences
“Will be”?
You sure about that?
Never assume!
Without knowing your area, and what the AHJ requires for Condo’s in your area… Don’t be surprised is Both are considered “Main Disconnects”… and the one at the Meter array is actually the “Emergency Disconnect” while the Garage is still wired as, and considered, the Main Disconnect!
Take lots of pics, and be prepared to post them here with your questions. Also, I would ask your Brother-in-law for clarification on anything you don’t fully understand about his work.
Thank you for the heads up, I stopped by the buildings to visit just the other day the panels are mounted in garage but no wire feeds or breakers in place yet. I will definitely keep an eye out for a main shut off inside, I seen the emergency shut off out by the meters in place already just not wire connected yet. I will get more education here through forum then onsite, my brother in law is the carpenter and general contractor, he hires the electric out, I have heard by a handful of people this electrician does neat looking and organized work but misses a lot and gets a lot of call backs to make things right. I am amazed by how knowledgeable you top inspectors are, I mentally learn a lot from you guys and it all comes together when I see first hand what you guys talk about.
There’s lots of stuff here, you just need to find it.
I recommend doing a SEARCH for “Emergency Disconnect” or similar.
Here’s one to get you started…
So the emergency disconnect outside will that eventually have the seal clip on it like a meter has for a safety clip?
A seal clip? To keep from opening it up in the event of an emergency? Maybe I’m misunderstanding the setup.
Also, it looks like there was some possible scorching going on. Could this have been why there was the makeshift panel on the dead front? Maybe someone with more electrical knowledge can chime in.
That is exactly why this forum is so much help, it is learning me to look deeper into to systems and components rather then a quick glance which is what I did, I looked right past that scorching, another lesson learned! I don’t think I know of the correct name rather than the name I made up lol! What I was calling a seal clip or safety clip was this, could you help me with the correct terminology?
Ditto Robert
Utility Seal put on by the POCO to prevent tampering.
Interesting… (From Dec. 2019)…
So the owner was nice enough to let me stop back over to look at panel again, it’s only 5 miles away from me. I wanted to see what I missed with the scorching you pointed out. The below pictures is what I found and don’t seem scorched but do seem as if there was a breaker there at some point. Now it makes me wonder did I over look it because it did not look defected in person or would I have missed it if it was as scorched as it appeared to be in the picture you pointed out. Pictures are dangerous to judge off of because the first picture it did look bad.
