Defect, or not?

rmeier2 · October 12, 2011, 1:37am

I’ll put in my two cents and say that this story is untrue, at least when referring to the NEC.

I prefer ground to the right. :twisted:

Jim_Port · October 12, 2011, 1:54am

That wording is not part of the listing or labeling. It is a suggestion that does not need to be followed. IIRC P&S is the only one to have that wording.

This whole issue means less with every plastic plate that gets installed.

Jim_Port · October 12, 2011, 1:59am

I would say the code is moving in the opposite direction. White conductors in a switch loop in a cable were not required to be marked as a hot. Everyone knew what was the accepted practice. Now the code requires them to be re-identified as a hot.

rmeier2 · October 12, 2011, 2:15am

Here’s a little reading on the subject. The CMP has continually rejected any attempts to require an orientation for receptacle grounds. There are plenty more in various NFPA-70 ROP’s.

18-22 Log #583 NEC-P18 Final Action: Reject
(406.4(G))

Submitter: Robert Tribbie, West Virginia State Fire Marshal’s Office
Recommendation: Add new text to read:
406.4(G) Grounding - Type Receptacles. All vertically mounted groundingtype
receptacles shall be installed with the blades up. Common practices for
installation should be used for receptacles that have grounds in the center.
Substantiation: The National Electrical Code does not state which way
grounding-type receptacles are to be installed.
Industry provides many types of cords with “plug in” connectors with neutral
positions. However, with today’s appliances, devices, and equipment with
newer materials, many of these are installed in a “flush mount” position. In this
application, the plugs are pre-formed into a space saving design. When these
types of plugs are installed in a blade down-position, the natural flow of the
trailing cord is disrupted and the trailing cord is then in a position of natural
stress. This stress is caused by (once it’s plugged in), the trailing cord, which
travels in an upward manner, then descends down to a position of where the
cord may lay on a surface or become suspended. This action weights the plug
to produce a backwards and/or twisting torque upon it. This weighting/torque
action could cause the plug to partially back out and expose the ground pin (on
top) and the current carrying blades (below) to open air (in a somewhat tilted
manner, the ground pin being pulled out prior to the current/carrying blades).
This action could cause the cord to become ungrounded. Moreover, in
applications where the blades are installed in a downward position, if
something were to fall between (or possibly build up between) the receptacle
and the plug - the foreign material could cause (a pendulum effect) contact
between the ground and the current-carrying parts of the plug. This would
energize the equipment ground, possibly damaging the equipment or causing
injury.
This statement could also be supported by:
406.9(D) Grounding-Pole Requirements. (second sentence) Which states:
“Grounding-type devices shall be so designed that grounding poles of
attachment plugs cannot be brought into contact with current-carrying parts of
the receptacles or cord connectors.”
Furthermore when an appliance, device, or piece of equipment is installed in
the “flush mount” position a trailing cord (in the blades down position) could
become kinked or pinched behind the installation and hasten the deterioration
of the cord.
Although (with the receptacle installed with the blades up) a plug could be
subject to the same actions as above, excluding the deterioration of the cord,
the results would be different; in that the ground pin would be held in place
and the current-carrying blades would come out first. In this instance (with
proper installation of the system), if something were to contact the blades the
resulting short would trip the circuit breaker. This is less likely to create the
pendulum effect described above.
Also, with this installation (blades up), if the plug is sufficiently backed out,
the plug could become de-energized while remaining grounded to the last
movement.
This statement could be supported by:
406.9(D) Grounding-Pole requirements (first sentence) Which states:
“Grounding-type attachment plugs and mating cord connectors and receptacles
shall be designed such that the grounding connection is made before the
current-carrying connections.”
This installation (receptacles installed with the blades up) would not only be
safer by intention, it would enhance the connectivity design that is currently
supplied by industry in support of 406.9(D).
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The panel has consistently rejected similar proposals and
there is no assurance that the orientation of the receptacle will prevent the type
of accident described in the recommendation. The orientation of the equipment
grounding conductor slot on the receptacle is installation specific.
The panel does not agree with the portion of the substantiation concerning the
necessity of equipment grounding conductor opening orientation to ensure that
the ground will break last. ANSI/UL 498 requires the equipment grounding
conductor prong to be longer than the current-carrying,blades and thus ensure it
makes first and breaks last regardless of receptacle mounting orientation.
Further, the panel points out that there is no industry standard as to the entry
point of the cord into attachment plugs.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12

kwood · October 12, 2011, 7:57am

Unless the Police come around or the AHJ tells me it needs to be intalled with ground pin down. I and many others will recommend three things.
Ground up on low outlets that can be reached by children. Ground on the left for a horizontal and ground down if needed up high for purposes of less stress on manufactured plugs. LOL

mcyr · October 12, 2011, 8:52pm

In horizontal installation the grounded conductor should be at the top, right?

jwicklander · October 12, 2011, 8:58pm

http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/images/uploads/03.30.acenti.jpg

end of problem…

Jeff

mcyr · October 12, 2011, 9:13pm

:mrgreen: Where the hell did you find that one? Never seen anything like it.

kwood · October 12, 2011, 9:34pm

It replaces this one from the early 1900s.

Attached Thumbnails
http://www.nachi.org/forum/attachments/f19/48842d1318455270t-defect-not-125-glaadstone-ave-oct-5-2011-063.jpg

One more style that I have never seen yet!

NEMA 1-15 style 5-receptacle outlet
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/5outlet-receptacle-rotate-crop-leveladj.jpg/220px-5outlet-receptacle-rotate-crop-leveladj.jpg http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.18/common/images/magnify-clip.png
Unusual American 5-receptacle NEMA 1-15 style outlet, ca. 1928

This is a very rare 5-way outlet from circa 1928, and is able to accept modern ungrounded polarized NEMA 1-15 plugs because the outlet itself is polarized. However, the outlet itself is still obsolete as the NEMA standard only provides for having at most 3 outlets from a single wallplate.

mcyr · October 12, 2011, 10:00pm

Kevin, I was three gleams away in my Fathers eyes in 1928.

Never come across those either.

dhays · October 12, 2011, 11:32pm

There is not a right way or a wrong way to install the receptacles in relation to the direction of the ground.

As an inspector we can all recommend what ever we want. It doesn’t mean we are right or wrong.

I have been an electrician for over 30 years. Now a full time inspector. I always put the ground down or to the left if horizontal.

This is in my opinion one of the things that just makes me wonder why so many inspectors want to make a mountain out of a mole hill. If it is not a problem why make it into one? I’m not aiming my post at you Kevin, just making my own comments.

jwicklander · October 12, 2011, 11:37pm

I can’t believe the thread drifted so much!

Jeff

dhays · October 12, 2011, 11:39pm

I agree. At least there is a plate. LOL
:roll:

kwood · October 13, 2011, 12:05am

David one out of three is better than none! At least I agree with you for ground on the left. LOL

jjonas · October 13, 2011, 2:28am

I know, funny huh? I was hoping for a ‘discussion’, but we are only a stones throw from ripping off heads!

“OFF WITH HIS HEAD”!!!
Bwaha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!

jjonas · October 13, 2011, 2:43am

dhays:

There is not a right way or a wrong way to install the receptacles in relation to the direction of the ground.
In residentail applications, correct.

As an inspector we can all recommend what ever we want. It doesn’t mean we are right or wrong.
You betcha’.

I have been an electrician for over 30 years. Now a full time inspector. I always put the ground down or to the left if horizontal.
WHY?
Were you taught to do that, or you just did what everyone else did?

This is in my opinion one of the things that just makes me wonder why so many inspectors want to make a mountain out of a mole hill. If it is not a problem why make it into one? I’m not aiming my post at you Kevin, just making my own comments.
Chill bro. We are just having a friendly conversation based upon a ‘fun’ scenario.

:nachi:

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