Do you Hate The New Wind Mit Form?

Local Inspection Issues Florida and SUNachi Inspectors
1

If so I suggest you call the numbers below. They have been trying to get me some answers and seem kind of surprised about the questions.

Florida office of insurance regulation
850-413-3140

Office of the commissioner “McCarty”
850-413-3140

I suggest anyone doing the wind mits call these numbers and tell them to go back to the other form.

Problems that come to mind for me are:

Do not bring up the pictures leave that alone for now. The form says visible items need pictures. I am not marking rafters and putting a ruler next to them and taking pictures. I suggest no one else does either. That whole method is crap and not accurate. If it is not visible no pictures . swr, wall type, nailing pattern etc…

Complain about how are we supposed to figure out what code the shutters are marked if they just say tested for large missile impact. that should be good enough.

Complain about the 4 nails in the rafters. I ask if it is a typo. Suggest they put a period after 3 nails. Just like the MSFH folks allowed.

I would love to hear any other things we should complain about because I have only done a few.

Suggest they bring back the old form. It sucks and has problems also like the nails in the rafters but it is better than this.

My opinion is only the person who does the inspection should be able to fill out the form. You all can tell them who you think that should be. that keeps the money in the persons pocket who does it. and keeps out the bigger companies from signing off on idiots work.

I am up for anything just CALL CALL CALL CALL CALL. I called the commissioner directly.

I also suggest you post this or you own version of this anywhere on any board from any organization that has people doing wind mits.

If this seems like a good Idea to all we should ask all InterNACHI members who have free long distance to help. It would give them something to do will driving to the next job.

I can tell you from personal experience they have no Idea of how bad it is and if everybody calls as much as they can then they Will get the message. Lets do something about this instead of just complaining amongst ourselves.

Please Help
Please leave useful ideas.
Please keep the stupid a s s comments out of this thread.
Lets do this for each other.

2

Mike,
Nothing personal towards you, but…
As much as I feel for most of you guys in Florida, and the situation you are in, out of principal, I could not oblidge you in your request…

…for you see, there is a certain Nachi member in Florida who, about a year ago, threw a fit, and tried to get about a half dozen non-Florida members banned from posting on the Florida threads. He went directly to Nick with his request/demand. To the best of my knowledge, Nick blew him off (rightly so) because they still post here to this day.

So, I guess, as they say, I say to him… ‘payback is a bi*ch’. Must really suck to “burn bridges”.

Some children never grow-up or learn.

Sorry Mike.

3

Ok I don’t think I was here yet but who knows. That is why I started it here for now. I did not really think many others would help but a guy can dream. take care.

4

No, you were not.

If not for the attitude of the other inspector, I would gladly make a call. Free long distance or not.

Maybe I will anyway, as I am above the likes of him.

Jeff

5

Thanks who knows if it will help or not. I have never solved a problem as big as this and I would flip out if I had something to do with something that sucks being made better.

6

I’m confused why it says that a “Hurricane mitigation inspector certified by the MSFH Program” is a qualified inspector. This has never been allowed and now from what I hear this is statement is obsolete because of the fact that the MSFH program is obsolete. So why would they still list it on the new form?

Also it asks for the “MSFH Certificate #” There are no certificate #'s on the cerificates.

Roof Deck Attachment:
If you have staples that is the “weakest form of attachment”. But, what about those roofers that reroof and add some 8d nails throughout & inbetween the staples, but maybe not every 6 inches? It asks for the “weakest form of attachment”. Is that still considered the staples?

Opening Protection: Section B-
They say a “Large Missile-9lbs” and then they list “Large Missile-4 lb-8 lbs. and 2 lb to 4.5lbs” Isn’t that suppose to be listed as a “Small” missile? I thought large missile was 9lbs and small missiles were 4lbs…Can you have a large missle at 2lbs?

7

Mike,
I agree, the form is bad. It has many errors and even some spelling typos- that is embarrassing for a state organization. Also, bear in mind that this version of the form was not developed to make inspections easier and clearer. It was essentially developed by the insurance industry and is intentionally confusing. They complained about the error rates completing the original form. I can assure you, the error rate for this form will be higher- by design. The insurance industry already has “third party independent quality assurance verifiers” in place to document the error rate for completing the form. They will then use that information to try to kill the program.
Unfortunately, Government moves slow- It will be a slow process to have the form changed as that will require public hearings and rule changes. Even if we are successful in getting their attention, it would take about a year. I was in the room at the last hearing for the current form. I can tell you that all inspectors, engineers,- guys actually doing the work- complained about the form. The insurance industry reps all wanted it as written.- They won. Again, it is not that the OIR didn’t know how bad the form was before they did this. They were clearly informed by the guys doing the work at the last hearing on Dec. 21, 2009.

8

All great points. I just feel if we have the time to try we should.

9

How the f*** do you verify, noa or product approval on a reroof with no roof docs, like purchase or 94’-03’ roof when they just dont have docs… Is permit # or application date, or contract not enough to get fbc/sfbc roof credit?

10

your right meeker, im calling right now, these bastards are trying to railroad the whole system

11

As always Dennis excelent point. call them all and let them know. This ought to be a fun year, not.

12

There are literally thousands of new roofs that were put on after the very active hurricane seasons 2004 to present that do not have documentation. Hundreds of roofers from around the country and from south of the Border descended on FL and got blessed by the local controlling authorities and got fast track permission to start putting roofs on. The blue roof guys were moving through neighborhoods slapping tarps on anything that was moving slower than 5 MPH whether it needed a roof or not because they were getting paid for each roof that got tarped.

As someone has said, the insurance industry really doesn’t want this program to continue. For years they didn’t even tell their clients the program even existed. The policy holder had to asked for an application, then and only then did they reveal the program. It was a fairly well kept secret.

They have now made it very unattractive for anyone thinking they are going to make a killing doing these. The price for a fee is not worth the liabilities if you carefully read between the lines. If one thing is not perfect on the form and the homeowner puts in a claim, then the carrier can deny it leaving the homeowner only one other person to look to…the inspector. As already pointed out, the forms are difficult, almost impossible to fill out accurately by design, making the site inspector the culprit if anything goes wrong. If enough people just refuse to do them with the current form, and inform their callers why, there will be a hue and a cry from the public for the OIR to straighten out this mess. People are sick and tired of this kind of crap from the government as well as the business world.

Anyone that has ever dealt with the insurance industry when it comes to national disasters knows they are masters at shirking their responsibilities and stalling. Apparently there are still billions of dollars worth of claims in a holding pattern because the insurance industry is waiting the policy holders out hoping they will just give up and many have and moved on.

I would not sign one of the forms for all the tea in China. Those that will, good luck and wish you the best.

13

What are you supposed to do when the roof was replaced after the back to back 2005 hurricanes.
The previous owner has been foreclosed on. The permit info is unavailable from the building dept due to post hurricane volume.
It is clearly a new roof installed in '05-'06 (post hurricane).
Since it’s a bank owned property, there are no product approval codes, permit dates, copy of contract, and no one to ask.

14

Without trying to sound like a prick I tell them,If they cannot prove it was done with a permit I cannot prove it was done to code. Sometimes people get pissed but most seem to understand.

15

Doug,

I wish I could refuse but someone else would just do it. Right now it is a risk I will have to take. Good thing is I am incorporated and the inspection company is listed as Meeker Industries not Mike Meeker. If they sue the company it would be like trying to get blood from a stone.

16

Just read your post Doug, and I am of a similar feeling. If I any doubt, the client will not recieve the rating that I would normally have assigned. It’s not about accuracy and my responsability to report the the facts as they are seen. It’s about feeling as though someone’s over my shoulder waiting for a minute detail to make me
liable to civil and criminal litigation.
Let put it this way, if I showed up to perform a HI under the same conditions. I’d give the client his money back and ask him to find another inspector.

17

Mike,
We are licensed contractors. The way I understand the law, there is no corporate sheild that will protect our license. State Statues diliberately place our license outside of the corporate envelope. If I’m wrong let me know.

18

I am not sure about that. That is why I just try to be as honest as possible and do things every time the same way. I save the information I have found over time and I try to have a answer for everything I put down. I do not guess. No proof no credit. I am sure I would need a lawyer but MAYBE the board would see that I have always tried to do it to the best of my ability. I imagine they would have to think I did something maliciously or fraudulently to be disciplined. People make mistakes and I am not sure if they would punish us for a mistake unless they did not trust us or because of how we have done reports in the past. Boy I am glad I have the spell check in the google tool bar because I can’t spell for crap. What a great ad-on that is.

19

Unfortunately, being incorporated will not always protect you. Most people think it does or will but if a good lawyer takes you to court for someone all he has to prove is you are not doing business as a corportation; that means every T needs to crossed, every i dotted, do you have annual shareholder meetings, annual corporate meeting, reports, do you hold the actual stocks in your company. You have to operate just as if you were a giant corporation and had hundreds of people in the company. If you do not, and most don’t, than he can pierce the corporate veil and you are defenseless. Not hard to prove at all. Are your corporate records up to date, did you do everything you are required to do before you make a business decision? Resolutions in order? Taxes all in order?
Go buy the book “Creating Your Financial Fortress” by Jay W. Mitton J.D. He is considered the Father of Asset protection. If you read it, it will scare the piss out of you when you see how vulnerable you really are as a businessman. It will also tell you how to set yourself up to be basically bullet proof. Takes some effort but everyone should be doing it. It is how rich people do business and stay rich.

20

Doug,

That sounds like a book I will be getting. Well I can say the taxes are in order.
your input is greatly appreciated. If anyone has a used copy of the book “Creating Your Financial Fortress” by Jay W. Mitton J.D. I would love to buy it.

thanks