Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
How can one tell if drain tile is installed without digging around the house? Is there a method to determine this and is there some code that says drain tile must be installed. If not, what are alternative ways to lead water away from the foundation of a house?
– This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: rking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis,
To my knowledge there is no definitive way of telling if there are drain tiles around the perimeter of a home. Sometimes in rural areas there is a drainage pipe (usually Big O) running out into the ditch near the driveway that could either be from the drainage tiles, sump pump or a combination of both. I always look for this on my way in to the driveway and then look for other signs in and around the house to determine tha nature of the pipe.
There arew many alternatives to exterior drainage around the perimeter of the home. Proper gutters and downspouts drained away from the house ( 6' or more), grading sloping away from the house and swales around the house to divert any water away from the house. (Swales are one of the NACHI hints but I am not sure which one).
A hint to me from a veteran inspector in my area was to ALWAYS recommend improvement to the grading and to recommend gutters and downspouts if there weren't any. His explanation for this was then the client could not say at a later date that I did not forewarn them of the possibility of basement leakage and/or dampness.
-- Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Well ok to the first Bob…but how do you know either way if it is or isn’t there?
Thanx to the second Bob aka Robert for the info. I am reading over the tips that they give on this Nachi website in preparation of taking the test and I came across the one for drain tile. What you stated makes sense to me. However, if the basement is damp or shows sign of water leaking in through the walls, would it be safe to assume that no drain tile is installed or that it may not be working as it should, or would it be best to just refer the possible problem to an expert?
Thanx in advance for any assistance Bob.
-- This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: rking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis,
Although I am fairly new at this, my beilief is that to do a good inspection for your clients you are looking for non performance of the homes systems and components. Each part of a home is important in and of itself and each part in some way affects another part or parts.
If you see something like moisture in a basement try to figure out why, kind of like a private detective.
When you start your inspection outside look for poor grading, downspouts at or near the foundation, cracks in the foundation etc., make a mental note or jot it down on a notepad as I do and then when you are inside look around that area a little more carefully for signs that that part of the house is not working as it was originally intended.
Just about every problem (I think) has signs, even things that have been repaired will have definitive signs. The trick is in learning to decipher all of the little signs and interpret them correctly.
Whew! I need a beer now!
Good Luck on your test!
-- Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: rking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
BTW Dennis, I almost forgot, if you find signs of problems that appear to be of a serious nature then most definitely refer your client to a specialist in that particular field… Now for that beer.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis … concerning your question about the code provisions, the International Residential Code (IRC) does require dampproofing/waterproofing for new construction with useable space below grade (IRC 406), and foundation drainage is also required for poor draining soils/backfill (IRC 405).
The use of typical foundation drains to keep a basement dry is questionable to me, but it's in the code and many consider this to be good construction practice. For existing homes there is no viable way to evaluate the effectiveness of these drains ... they could be working fine (although that's not usually the case) and the basement still leaks due to other problems.
As pointed out by others it's better to looks for signs of water penetration ... and look for conditions that would indicate the potential for that which includes poor grading, missing gutters, missing splash pads, clogged drywells, cracked foundations, and sites with poor draining soils (silt/clay ... but that hard to tell on existing homes).
Just my 2-cents
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: mhenderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
In my experience, I found out that if there is a drain tile problem ,it is usually at the base where the foundation wall meets the the foundatuion floor…look for condensation,stains,efflorescence at this L junction…if there are any of these signs you have a drain tile problem whether ones there or not is irrelevant …its a problem …you just need to note on your report …all you can do is look for signs… unless you have x-ray vision…
Originally Posted By: janderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
If a drain tile/sump pump system was installed after the home was completed and the basement area is unfinished, you will most often times notice that fresh concrete has been applied around the perimeter of the interior foundation, where the wall and floor meet. Under this new layer of concrete is where the drain tile and fill has been installed and pitched to drain into a sump pit and then be pumped to the exterior.
– Within the seeds of ignorance lie the fruits of denial
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
J.B. is talking about a “French Drain” installed around the basement perimeter on the inside of the foundation. It’s pretty easy to spot since you will see a sump pit where the drain pipes discharge, with a pump to remove the water. This is usually installed when the there is significant water penetration from high groundwater. As long as the groundwater is not too high and it’s properly installed, french drains can work pretty well … at least until there is a power outage …
"Foundation Drains" are installed around the exterior of the foundation near the footing during construction of the house. Some designers (including me) really question the use of these drains, since they clog and tend to act as a wick to draw normal rainwater towards a foundation. So to me it's not a big deal that you can't inspect/evaluate them.
It's better to look for adequate roof drainage and grading away from the house. As you do the exterior walk-around make a note of any missing/clogged gutters or downspouts, areas that do not pitch away from the house, and downspouts that discharge less than about 6' away from the foundation. Then check the basement in these areas for signs of water penetration.
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
P.S. I was called in to evaluate a cracking foundation wall and water penetration on one house where the homeowner had a proposal to install a french drain system for around $5,000 after the foundation was fixed.
There was no gutter on the side of the house with the problem, and the ground pitched towards the house with poor draining soils. A check on the groundwater level indicated that wasn't the problem. So while the foundation repairs were being done I also had the homeowner install roof drains and regrade away from the house in this area (needed to be done anyway) with a special inexpensive twist ... then wait and see. The french drain never was installed, as there hasn't been any significant water penetration since.
Evaluations/repairs are beyond a home inspection, but I thought you guys/gals would find that intersesting to make a point about the importance of proper roof drainage and grading.
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: arosenbaum This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I believe that there is a drain tile (aka French drain) if there is a 2 foot diameter hole (about 2+ feet deep with a 3-4 inch PVC/ABS/other type of pipe coming into it)where a sump pump goes. Also, as stated before, if you can see the foundation walls and you see new cement around the whole interior perimeter of the foundation wall, then that means that a drain tile was installed.
I think that all houses built in the 70s and on were required to have a drain tile around them.
While I was at a job doing some plumbing (don't worry, when I do inspections full time, I won't do plumbing, since I believe its against NACHI's practice...and I don't do plumbing work for my clients that I do inspections for)I noticed that the house had no gutters, but where the water drained off of the roof and onto the ground, they had a 1x50 foot "rock draining system" with wood surrounding it in the ground and the water drained away from the house. I wish I had pictures to show you, but I thought it was somewhat neat.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks for posting that Paul … I was looking for that and couldn’t find it again …
Although there is what I think is a little discrepancy in the diagram.
If the intent is to control groundwater coming up into the basement then you wouldn't drill holes in the wall base and you might also install waterproofing.
If the intent is to relieve pressure and/or handle water penetration through cracks/joints, then it really should be gravel fill above the drain tile, and not concrete, to go with the holes drilled in the wall base ...
Just my 2-nickles
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
How can one tell if drain tile is installed without digging around the house? Is there a method to determine this and is there some code that says drain tile must be installed. If not, what are alternative ways to lead water away from the foundation of a house?
