Four point form

I have received several emails about forms so here is an example of what can be done with a pdf form. Most of the software companies offer some type of form solution. This is the one we use, quick, easy and most complete. You will notice some items do not have to be selected on the form and most can be changed by typing over them.

You can use a pdf reader with these forms, I recommend a pdf print driver to secure(aka flatten) the form before sending it out, else others could change it to.

I hope that helps.

I just updated it, so let me know if you see anything that needs correcting.

Sorry too big to post.

To quote someone else, “That is a mini inspection”!:mrgreen::mrgreen:

It looks good John!:cool:

Charge accordingly! :stuck_out_tongue: Thanks

Yeah and hell why worry if the insurance company makes the customer fix something that they would not have bothered them about anyway. It’s not your money it is the clients.

Clients are sure to remember to use the guy that cost them money next time. They will probably even recommend you to all their friends and family :slight_smile:

Just for the record it is quite nice of John to help everyone out with this. It does seem a great many are not quite up to speed on what they can do with their computers.

The absolute minimum is the reason why Andrew was so devastating. I for one do not want to pay for some else’s lack of care of their home. I report what is asked of us, nothing more, nothing less. The insurance companies decide.

I have not read one of your reports.

I only based my statement on what Eric said I would have called it. If it is the Nachi one there is way more info than I have ever been asked for.

If it does not cause them a problem then it need not be on the form. Our job is not to inventory the house and describe things in great detail. The Nachi form gives many many more times the information that has traditionally been an Insurance 4 point form. This is not a good thing as far as the customer is concerned. I have no idea why you all seem to think the more the better. By giving more information than what is asked for you are doing additional work and giving the insurance companies additional reasons to raise you clients premiums or not insure them or cause them to have things fixed. It is not appreciated by the homeowner and it is a disservice to the one who is paying the bill.

That is the form approved by Citizens 5 years or more ago. It has not been changed or added to since.

Citizens accepts a bunch of different forms from thousands of different guys.

you win


Would you mind posting your four point form? Or emailing to me at I would like to see it. I personally use the same form John does. It doesn’t seem like too much info to me but I would like to see how you simplify it. I personally give more information then most because I have noticed the insurance companies are not liking the guys that give very little information.

it is on and I add total amps and year updated when I can tell on electrical. I attach photos of everything I check. About 2 pages of photos cropped and pasted to each sheet. No descriptions or details just the pictures.

I have next to no problems with citizens or anyone else except when they want a year updated on something and I do not know for sure.

As you can see mine is a great deal less info and yet it gets accepted all of the time on a weekly basis.

You offer less, we offer more.

Yours may get accepted, but with questions sometimes. Ours is desired.

Both work, possibly. I would rather have the answers for an agent on the page then make them ask. I would rather be a complete, one solution for all, every time. You may meet some standard, we exceed expectations.

Did you know that many inspections have other visits to the property? If you leave it off the report they find out anyway, if they want to know.

Most agents would rather know upfront if there will be an issue. This way they can have it corrected or write with someone else. If the policy is canceled after a second visit to the property by some other inspector then some insurance companies will not take them. Now, what are they to do? Who is doing them a disservice then?

They should be done right the first time. I would even like to do away with “other” visits to the property, it would save us all money.

For the record Mike, I agree it is too much information and frankly, none of their business.
If it is a stipulation of my mortgage that I have to get insurance, on a home I don’t even own, remember, the bank owns it until it is paid off, why should I have to pay for it?

The problem is that if the situation develops which John describes, then, if they have a mortgage, “force-placed” insurance is added which is at least double what they can get on their own.

These inspections are just a tool for the insurance companies to raise rates. Plain and simple.

I am not really sure I understand the thought process here. I met a lady the other night and she was complaining to me about her insurance company. She told me she had a four point and wind mit done and just about every couple of weeks the insurance company was calling looking for more information. She had no issues with her inspector, her inspector said the insurance company is being too much and wants too much information. I told her I agree the insurance company wants a lot of information so thats why we give them everything the first time instead of having our clients dealing with something like this. She sent me her reports and I consider them incomplete.

Guys, stop fighting it and just provide the service that is expected of you. Believe me if you provide more you are providing a better service. Our wind mits are completely different now then even 5 months ago. Learn from what others are doing. We are proud that we go above and beyond. We learn new things everyday and work toward implementing them into our business.

Wind mits are not the same as 4 points. What I am talking about is mainly 4 points but I have seen some wind mits with way to much info as well. Way to many photos and such.

Mine is desired by the clients.
Clients are the ones who pay the bill.
It is my opinion that you are either work for the insurance company of for the client. I work for the client.I only have a problem when I cannot tell when something has been updated. Anything additional to what I put is fluff. Fluff cost the clients money once they get an underwriter with a hair up their butt. Do as you all like but doing the Mini home inspections does the clients and fellow inspectors a huge injustice.

Simply don’t understand all the complaints. When you ask an insurance company to insure a property for hundreds of thousands of dollars they certainly have a right to determint their risk. I find Insurance companies are usually not proactive but are much more reactionary by nature. Four point inspections are nothing more than a reaction to their expierence over the years. If everyone took reasonable care of their homes then insurance companies expierence would have been different and 4-points would have never evolved. They also send out underwriter inspectors because their expierence has told them many of their customers may be less than truthful when answering question posed by the agent. This is where John is saying the items not reported in a 4-point may be picked up anyway.

I ask those of you that choose not to report on certain items what ever they are, if one of those items you didn’t report on fails and causes damage to the client’s home how would you feel then? How do you think the client will feel? Just asking…

It is not you job to feel. It is to provide the inspection the client has asked for.

The simple solution would be to have a Uniform 4 point inspection form created by the OIR but then we would all get screwed and instead of telling each other how it should be then the state would tell us.

I will leave it be again for a while because you cannot change a leopards spots and there are a ton of leopards around here. I guess spots are like words and pictures the more the merrier.

Michael, just because there are differences of opinion do not mean that they are personal attacks. It’s just business decisions, thats all.

In a world where people want more for less, it will continue to do so. In that method of madness, more demands are placed on people and they have to deliever to keep getting the business. I find that people now (especially the newer people) can do much more in less time than what was accomplished just a year or two ago.

Instead of looking at their way as more demands and more BS, (which I beleive it to be as well) I can do one of two things. I can adapt and learn new methods and provide that information or I can lose the referals. The choice is mine.

Here is what is even the strangest of all, people like John Shishilla, Jeff Pope, Dale Duffy and such even TELL YOU HOW to do it. At the cost of NADA and yet people turn their heads and scoff at the ideas and methods. Their business models work call them pick their brains ask them, they are all more than happy to help a brother.

Michael you have a nice grasp on getting your name to the public and people know of you. Instead of bumping heads, think of what these forms are going to be like and what it is going to take to get them accomplished next year and team up with someone, just for information purpose and beat people to the punch.

Keep up with the trends makes you an average inspector. Setting the trends makes you a leader and will lead to financial independance. The decision is yours…


I agree with much you say especially about the fact that all those mentioned are willing to help others. I think that is great and always help any who ask, even my closest competition.

I personally believe we should try to work smarter and help out clients more. If we continue to jump thru all hoops the insurance companies put in front of us we are working harder. The way the insurance companies make it up as they go drives me up a wall and I try not to cater to them. I believe it hurts us all when we cater to those who do not pay the bills.

On the other hand when doing a home inspection I feel the complete opposite. The more you can do and the more you provide your client the more value the client gets from you.

I guess it just boils down to me not like being told what to do by the insurance companies and I feel they are changing their requirements due to inspectors going above and beyond. I feel when inspectors go above and beyond on insurance inspections they hurt their clients and all of us. That is just my opinion on it and we all know what opinions are like :slight_smile:

I agree Michael but the standards are being set and I have yet to see a company who likes to increase work for the same amount of money. But that company as with all companies have a choice, either comply with the new standard or be left behind.

It is like the chicked and egg comment, which came first? So did inspectors just do this or were demands made of them to comply. I am sure after a client has to call the inspector back a few times to get the correct information needed to obtain insurance there are three unhappy people. One is the agent who has to keep calling, the owner thinks your incompetent for need to keep returning and the inspector is upset that he has to keep returning.

So to defeat these three items, the present indepth form were developed. Its not about getting the client the cheapest price, its about stating the facts. It is what it is, plain and simple.

As I have stated earlier, some saw the writing on the wall as to what is going to be needed in the future and started implementing those needs now, so that they would be ahead of the game and leaders in insurance inspections. Guess what, they are leaders in the insurance inspection industry.

Stop looking at where it’s at, try and determine where it going and be the first to get there. Playing catch up leads to destruction of a company.

Many guys can do 10 wind mits or 4 points a day and even at $75 each thats $750 a day , 3,750 a week and $165,000 a year with 8 WEEKS OFF. Not so shabby, the hard thing is getting the business and some here are figuring out what it takes to get that business and delievering it.