Free SPEECH should it be allowed

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


John locked the post by Nick because he thought was useless.


http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?p=137929#137929


It had 1880 look at it in 13 days so I have to think a lot of people thought it was worth a look . I also wish that some of the useless banter did not go on but it was on an open forum so do we at the will of some one say some things are ok and others should be stopped .


Should an open forum be moderated or allowed to continue.


I might have a slanted position on this because Raymond Wand is a friend of mine . I also have lost all faith in Dave Bottoms because he is always anti NACHI and does not tend to help others while Ray tries to help all.


Raymond at least does not tell lies about other people like some do.


I also have lost faith in OAHI with the treatment they give to their membership . They are a twin to ASHI from which the are associated with .


It is so easy to say keep it on another forum but this really is the only open place where Canadians can post the truth and many Canadians do come to the NACHI forum to learn because they see the advantage of it .


I do know for sure that much of the information posted here gets back to the Canadian Directors on the home inspection industry.



Posted: May 27, 2005 12:09 PM


Post subject: Erol Kartol and Dave Bottoms help out NACHI! Thanks!


Erol Kartol and Dave Bottoms help out NACHI! Thanks!
[ Go to page: 1, 2, 3, 4 ] 85 Nick Gromicko 1880 Jun 9, 2005 7:01 PM
John Bowman


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: clawrenson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



deleted



Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

Originally Posted By: Dave Bottoms
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



.


Originally Posted By: wpedley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Personally gentleman I am with Mr. Bowman 100% on this. I do not care to keep hearing about anything not specifically related to the inspection industry or profession. There are other “chat rooms” that are available to waste your time on . Don’t do it here. There comes a time where someone HAS to step in and just say enough is enough.


Sure you say If I don't like it I don't have to read it, but like others, I try to read every post to see what CONSTRUCTIVE information I can find.


--
BPedley
Inspecting for the unexpected

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



wpedley wrote:
Personally gentleman I am with Mr. Bowman 100% on this. I do not care to keep hearing about anything not specifically related to the inspection industry or profession. There are other "chat rooms" that are available to waste your time on . Don't do it here. There comes a time where someone HAS to step in and just say enough is enough.

Sure you say If I don't like it I don't have to read it, but like others, I try to read every post to see what CONSTRUCTIVE information I can find.

Thanks for your opinion John . It is so unfortunate that when I try to give out information Mr Dave Bottoms follows my post with a lot of nothing . It would be so different if he was to refute what I say but he only continues his particular banter and does not answer any questions or give his opinion or any information .
I try to give true factual information that is important to all Canadian inspectors .


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



This a prime example of a person who does not want information to get out to the Canadian inspectors .


















I give up you win dave


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Dave Bottoms wrote:
rcooke wrote:
wpedley wrote:
Personally gentleman I am with Mr. Bowman 100% on this. I do not care to keep hearing about anything not specifically related to the inspection industry or profession. There are other "chat rooms" that are available to waste your time on . Don't do it here. There comes a time where someone HAS to step in and just say enough is enough.

Sure you say If I don't like it I don't have to read it, but like others, I try to read every post to see what CONSTRUCTIVE information I can find.

Thanks for your opinion John . It is so unfortunate that when I try to give out information Mr Dave Bottoms follows my post with a lot of nothing . It would be so different if he was to refute what I say but he only continues his particular banter and does not answer any questions or give his opinion or any information .
I try to give true factual information that is important to all Canadian inspectors .

What "information" are you supposed to be trying to give out? All I see is a bunch of in-your-endo about an association of which you are not a member and about which you know nothing, along with a shot or two at me personally.

Here's something to consider, Roy: WHO ASKED YOU! ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)

If you really feel the need to pretend you know the inside scoop about an association of which you are not a member, then why not post that alleged information ON THE CANADIAN MEMBERS SECTION? At least there you could rest assured I would be unable to refute your bull$hit. The Canadian Members section is in the Members-Only area and I'M NOT A MEMBER. I have no access to anything you say on that section.

The fact that you favour this open forum area over the Canadian Members section speaks volumes to your agenda. You have no interest in giving out information. Your only interest is in inciting another pissing match. You can't do that over on the Canadian Members section, because I'm not there to fight with.

Try as you might to make out like you're only trying to give out information, but the truth is far too transparent for you to try to cover up with your innocuous smoke screen. Simply put, you are insulting the intelligence of your NACHI brethren if you think they are fooled by your little games.

Now, how about shutting that gateway to hell you call a mouth for once and letting this forum return to normal? ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif) ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif) ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif) I, for one, have had it with your crap.

Dave


Dave,

Nothing to say, just wanted to keep this post for future reference, before you deleted it. By the way, why do you delete everything? I really like the part where you say -

Quote:
"If you really feel the need to pretend you know the inside scoop about an association of which you are not a member, ..."


Dave you keep alluding and lying about NACHI's entrance requirements, why is that? What is your agenda on this? Why the deceit and lies? Perhaps you should review [url]http://www.nachi.org/join.htm [/url] You should note that there are 15 steps that one must complete before becoming a working member of NACHI. Their is much more to it than simply completing an entry level exam and paying your entry dues. By the way, no reporter to date has ever been issued membership within NACHI. So quit spreading the lies and deceit. Your actions do not look badly on NACHI. In fact it is quite the opposite, your actions look poorly on you and your association.

Of course you know about the 15 entry steps. You purposefully choose to ignore the facts and fabricate your own mistruths in an attempt to tarnish NACHI and its members. An organization that you pretend to know about of which yor are not a member. Swallow your pride Dave, NACHI is in Canada to stay, despite your best efforts to eliminate NACHI from Canada.

Think, I'll go down to the local "Senior Citizen Bingo Parlor" now and pay the admission fees for our esteemed seniors to become members of ASHI, NAHI, and OAHI/CAHPI. They don't have any entry requirements other than $$, and they can start inspecting right away.

Sorry for the rantings and guess I did have something to say. Dave Bottoms you are a backstabing unethical waste of time. One of your OAHI/CAHPI members just sent me your latest email. You should be ashamed. I guess that little disclaimer at the bottom is useless - "This e-mail/post is privileged/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail/post or the information it contains is unauthorized".

To help you a little more here are some quotes from that e-mail.

"The point a few people seem to be missing is this: Do we want our professional accreditation to represent well educated and trained professionals or simply anyone who can pass an online, open book, open google.com quiz?

If our goal is to one day garner the same respect as professional engineers and architects, then NACHI's presence in Canada is a serious setback."


Well anyways, you get the idea. Now off to the the Bingo Parlor, or maybe I should go to the Dog Groomer's that you mention in your confidential e-mail.

Go away Dave. Your agenda is quite clear and you are becoming less and less welcome at this professional association bulletin board.


Originally Posted By: lewens
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



John


All I can say is, thank you. When Mr. Bottoms comes up against someone of your caliber he only comes half equipped. Now perhaps he will back away and let it be instead of continuing to rant and carry on his subversive rhetoric.


Again I applaud your stance.


Larry



Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/

Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



icon_lol.gif



The value of experience is not in seeing much,


but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905


http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

Originally Posted By: Dave Bottoms
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



.


Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Famous quotes I have been collecting from Mr. Bottoms. The peson everyone loves to hate.


Quote:
If only professional HIs (those who are already accredited by a legitimate professional association) became NACHI Certified HIs, then there'd be little to complain/worry about.


There already are, your quote above is another lie from you because once again you can not be relied on to speak the truth.

Quote:
The problem lies in the fact that NACHI appeals "mainly" (not totally) to fly-by-night hacks who either can't be bothered or don't have what it takes to earn their RHI through OAHI. Now they can become "certified" by a U.S. Home Inspector Clearinghouse by taking a simple online quiz.


Seems to be many OAHI/CAHPI members with membership in Nachi, your comment is an insult to them, but you don't care who you insult. Scruples were never in your bag of tricks.

Quote:
Suddenly, professional accreditation for HIs becomes somewhat meaningless because anyone can become a certified HI without any formal education, training or knowledge.


People don't enter professions without knowing something about the profession. Your comments don't hold water, and they don't muster the scrutiny.

Quote:
Once the Canadian media gets up to speed on this issue, they will exploit it much the same way the U.S. media has been using NACHI's meaningless certification process to trash the home inspection profession in general. To quote Dave Yates from the article above: "That?s it? Thirty-five minutes, less than 300 bucks and I?ll be a certified home inspector? No experience necessary, no proof that the applicant took the test instead of a friend or an employer and no proof that the applicant took a closed-book test. 'POOF' you?re a 'Certified Home Inspector.'"


Where is the proof, one or two articles are not compelling. Especially when you have never conclusively proven Nachi members are any less competent. And the fact that you are not a full time inspector but a full time basement contractor.

Quote:
By the way, I corresponded with Mr. Yates and it seems the article above was not pulled due to errors but due to the direct threat of a lawsuit by NACHI Nick. They figured it was simply easier to pull the article than waste their time defending its accuracy.


Prove it, you have been known to lie repeatedly, I don't believe anything you say.

Quote:
The point a few people seem to be missing is this: Do we want our professional accreditation to represent well educated and trained professionals or simply anyone who can pass an online, open book, open google.com quiz?


It doesn't matter as the profession is and remains unregulated. Even Oahi cannot police itself and make contrary statements. You are living proof that Oahi bends the rules to suit their agenda.

Quote:
If our goal is to one day garner the same respect as professional engineers and architects, then NACHI's presence in Canada is a serious setback.


Totally irrelevent to be comparing engineers and architects. Opposite end of the spectrum.

Quote:
However, if one feels that education and training and knowledge are nothing more than obstacles put up in an effort to prevent people from getting professionally accredited (I've heard this argument by Nick and other NACHI leaders), then NACHI's presence in Canada will present a welcome relief.


You are living proof that knowledge is in short supply. You can't move up, and you don't know anything about inspecting.

Quote:
The bottom line is this: It is easier to become a Certified Home Inspector with NACHI than a dog groomer, even if all you know is how to groom dogs.


You only become a certified inspector if you know something about home inspections. You are not certified or an RHI and are not full time so your point is pointless. Just like you!

Quote:
Keep in mind: A simple online quiz cannot bridge the gap between a no-nuthin' hack and the certified professional, in any profession.


So you must be a no-nuthin hack because you are neither. That would make you a loser.

All these famous quotes from a no nothing, not even part time home inspector who has been stuck in the Associate category for years and likes everyone to believe he is superiour in everyway. The fact remains there are many qualified members in Nachi regardless of the online exam. Just like there are unqualified members in OAHI/CAHPI who have past the test but are incompetent. So I guess all things are equal. What a hypocrite!

Get the shovel out, its going to be another do nothing day listening to Bottoms tell us how great he is, the saviour of the inspection biz

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905

http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

Originally Posted By: lewens
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



And this Ladies and Gentlemen is the upstanding citizen who has said he is tired of the pissing matches, so, when someone else posts something not adressed to Mr. Bottomfeeder to avoid a pissing match he insults a member to blow the spark into flame, yet again, so Mr.David" the not wanting to start a pissing match" guy you have again proven you are not trustworthy to keep your mouth shut and crawl back under your rock so I suggest you take your attitude to, oh I don’t know, lets say Seattle. Why Seattle you ask? Because the sun don’t shine in Seattle.



Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/

Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



icon_smile.gif



The value of experience is not in seeing much,


but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905


http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Dave,


Once again without realizing it you have supported NACHI. Thank-you. Quite an impressive lists of requirements before you are a working member of NACHI, wouldn't you say? Other associations require none of these. You just simply pay your entry fee hang your shingle and begin doing inspections. In fact your encouraged to go out and perform inspections so that you can have money to pay for "meaningless" tests, such as the NHIE, COE, and SOP exams. (You did say they were all meaningless didn't you). Your association even suggests that you go to college for several years (like engineers, architechts, etc.) so you too can qualify to belong to OAHI/CAHPI as a part-time inspector. Hell, with that much education, why would I want to be an inspector, engineers & architecht's, etc. make much more money.

So let me get this straight, you endorse associations that require that you only pay dues with no other requirements before you begin inspecting.

You are proud that OAHI/CAHPI does not require you to fullfill anything prior to doing inspections.

You agree with and therefore specifically email out the mistruths and statements of reporters that have not completed or fulfilled any requirements and falsified their connection with NACHI.

Imagine your support of associations that require fee's before taking their SOP and COE exams and quizes. Especially when any young individual can pass it or agree with them. Well worth my hard earned money. NACHI realizes the significance of the SOP and COE and only wants to ensure that everyone has at least read them. We don't need to make money off them. Requiring fees on these would be redundant. Other associations you can still belong to and pay yearly fees even though you never ever pay for or take their COE/SOP tests. (If they have one).

Again, I must remind you that these are only our entry requirements. These are not our working member or full member requirements. You keep referring to Certification, what are you talking about. If you mean that NACHI certifies that xxxx is a member in good standing, yes we do.

It's so sad that you don't know how to put all the parts together. For instance you attack NACHI's entrance exam. Yet you fail to realize that inspectors in several states must pass exams required of their state prior to them being eligible to inspect. Yet if they want to join NACHI they also must pass our test. (Note of clarification: We do accept passing of the NHIE for entry in NACHI).

Thanks for your support on our entrance requirements which are much more than simply paying a fee and begin inspecting. Consumers beware -ASHI, NAHI, & OAHI/CAHPI have no other requirements for joining their association other than paying their entry fees.


Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Can anyone tell me what states or providences require a proctored exam for membership in an association.


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Dave,


I'm happy that you got all of this off your chest. Now that you have accomplished this (though I suppose a physic or giant enema may have produced a mirrored result). may I make a suggestion?

Just go away...


Your oinions may indeed be valid...to you. You have managedto accomplish what the most ardent NACHI non-supporters have failed to do. That is to turn every single forum you post in into a s#!t fight.

Though I disagree with some of the philosophies of Jim M and Chad F, compared to your posts, I'd welcome theirs in a heartbeat. The difference between them and you is that I actually enjoy conversing with them. At a non-NACHI level, I actually like and respect them. I cannot say the same for you.

Please take this elsewhere. For good...


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.






What a deviant person looks like.

Why would Mr. Bottoms have so many diapers on his counter. Bladder leakage I guess?

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905

http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:
Oh and for the record Mr. Bottoms on the Oahi CAFE is now claiming I took his post from the CAFE today and sent it to the Executive of Nachi, which I can tell you I did not do. I only quoted verbatim what Mr. Bottoms said. Seems Mr. Bottoms is lying yet again. So much for scruples eh?


I will unconditionally gurantee that Ray Wand was not the one who sent me the OAHI CAFE post. It was a concerned Canadian OAHI/CAHPI member. But Mr. Wand, you are more than welcome to send me anything you have and Bottoms you might as well just put me on your mailing list. I have quite a collection. (Don't fret if you don't. I automatically get these anyways).

Go away Bottoms, you are not welcome.

Think I'll suggest creation of a CRHI designation for our Canadian membership. "Certified Registered Home Inspector". ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

The requirements will be a notorized copy of your birth certificate, driver's license, or note from your mother.

Must abide by OAHI/CAHPI's SOP's and COE's. (Or you can follow ASHI's. OAHI/CAHPI isn't, aren't, or ain't smart enough to develop their own).

Must complete the ASHI exam. (Should be simple, ASHI doesn't have an exam).

Must carry a 55 million E & O policy.

Send me $25.00+gst for full details. ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Hi John


Thanks for confirming that I was not the sender. I guess I can expect an apology from Mr. Bottoms?

You can rest assured that anything delirious that Mr. Bottoms has to say will be reposted here.

Thanks very much.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905

http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

Originally Posted By: clawrenson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



John - (for clarification) are you suggesting that OAHI & CAHPI- National does not have a code of ethics. Because if so, you are sadly mistaken. In fact, they are different than ASHI’s if that was meant to be one of your low blows. Perhaps someone informed you with incorrect information. However, I will give you credit for most CAHPI association members abide by and follow the ASHI - SOP. But members are allowed to exceed them.


Yet another point of clarification - CAHPI association members "MUST" follow the SOP as a MINIMUM, and MUST abide by the Code of Ethics. Seems that past dialogues exchanged here indicate NACHI treats the Code of Ethics as a nice to follow - but - oh well, if you don't, you don't! Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

On yet another note - this whole sad state of affairs does nothing to foster betterment of any goodwill between the associations being targeted. Does it not seem ironic that the majority of association members - regardless of affiliation have steered clear of this ongoing saga and what some claim the political debate of serving the "best" interest of others.

BTW: All of these "characters" are already on the radar screen within CAHPI and OAHI. So we seem to share much more in common.


--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.