This was a 1921 build just outside of Los Angeles. If you notice, this system has only two circuits, both ungrounded and both with fused neutrals (which are "no-no's").
There were four - 15 amp - "screw in" fuses (originally) and one was replaced with a 30 amp fuse (wonder why ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif) ). The service cables were both provided with 30 amp cartridge fuses in the main shut-off.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeff,
I must lead a sheltered life. As I said in another thread, I have never seen a steam boiler on a home inspection. I have also never seen fused neutrals!
I have found pennies behind fuses though. And a six tapped 30amp fuse with 14, 12 and 10 gauge wires all on the pole. ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif) ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif)
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Blaine,
I've never seen a steam boiler either (other than during training). That's why I posted this. It's not very common (thankfully) and I'm hoping it will help those who aren't sure what they're looking at.
This little old lady only had five outlets in the entire house with extension cords strung everywhere. I'm assuming that one circuit was for these outlets and the other was for the lights overhead. It was quite scary actually ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif)
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I am assuming K&T wiring too.
Fused neutrals, eh ... dangerous but rare situation. Interesting that you ran across it since I understand fused neutrals were only allowed for about 8 years during the 1920's. Kind of like a Loch Ness Monster sighting, except you have the pics to prove it ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)
Can be a very "shocking" experience working on these systems [with fused neutrals] for a sparky too ...
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Actually, this is the second time in less than one year that I’ve run across this. Yes, it was K&T. All original installation as far as I could tell. I was told that the home was built in 1921, so I guess that fits with your timeline.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I guess ya had a lot of homes in your area built around the same time, but the fused neutrals are indeed no-no’s (even though they may actually be “grandfathered” as existing wiring).
Sounds like the electrical system is stretched, but some say that original K&T wiring is okay if left alone and protected ... it usually gets hacked up when someone addes on later. But to me old wiring is old wiring ... unlike me, it doesn't get any better with age ... ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
K&T wiring is typically done with rubber insulated conductors, or something which lasts not even that long.
The rubber insulation is probably gone, at the very least, dried out, cracked and electrically useless, if not literally 'gone'.
Then, add to that to the walls and ceiling likely having had some insulation added, encapsulating the conductors which are designed to be in free air and are not to be covered with, or buried in, insulation.
While I see almost no K&T wiring down here (what little there was has been replaced years ago), I did see some when I was in Gainesville from '67-'87. I cannot recall any that was added onto correctly.
Originally Posted By: JIM WALKER This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
A remark on insulation where K T is the system.Insulation is a code violation.Recently i was contracted to do an addition / remodel on a 1920’s home in tampa.Opening up the rear end of the building brought into display many handy man add ons as well as insulated KT.The AHJ made them repair all the add on violations as well as deal with the insulation.The rewire was only real choice and added a few thousand to the job cost.Do your customers a favor and point this out to them.Personally i think the insulation company needs to hear from a lawyer.I am new to this board and am considering being a home inspector,so any help on how to become one is helpfull.
Originally Posted By: Joe Tedesco This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
ARTICLE 324 -- Concealed Knob-and-Tube Wiring
324-1. Definition
Concealed knob-and-tube wiring is a wiring method using knobs, tubes, and flexible nonmetallic tubing for the protection and support of single insulated conductors.
324-2. Other Articles
Concealed knob-and-tube wiring shall comply with this article and also with the applicable provisions of other articles in this Code, especially Article 300.
324-3. Uses Permitted
Concealed knob-and-tube wiring shall be permitted to be installed in the hollow spaces of walls and ceilings or in unfinished attics and roof spaces as provided in Section 324-11 only as follows:
1. For extensions of existing installations, or
2. Elsewhere by special permission.
324-4. Uses Not Permitted
Concealed knob-and-tube wiring shall not be used in commercial garages, theaters and similar locations, motion picture studios, hazardous (classified) locations, or in the hollow spaces of walls, ceilings, and attics where such spaces are insulated by loose, rolled, or foamed-in-place insulating material that envelops the conductors.
324-5. Conductors
(a) Type. Conductors shall be of a type specified by Article 310.
(b) Ampacity. The ampacity shall be determined by Section 310-15.
324-6. Conductor Supports
Conductors shall be rigidly supported on noncombustible, nonabsorbent insulating materials and shall not contact any other objects. Supports shall be installed as follows:
1. Within 6 in. (152 mm) of each side of each tap or splice
2. At intervals not exceeding 4? ft (1.37 m)
Where it is impracticable to provide supports, conductors shall be permitted to be fished through hollow spaces in dry locations, provided each conductor is individually enclosed in flexible nonmetallic tubing that is in continuous lengths between supports, between boxes, or between a support and a box.
324-7. Tie Wires
Where solid knobs are used, conductors shall be securely tied thereto by tie wires having insulation equivalent to that of the conductor.
324-8. Conductor Clearances
(a) General. A clearance of not less than 3 in. (76 mm) shall be maintained between conductors and a clearance of not less than 1 in. (25.4 mm) between the conductor and the surface over which it passes.
(b) Limited Conductor Space. Where space is too limited to provide these minimum clearances, such as at meters, panelboards, outlets, and switch points, the individual conductors shall be enclosed in flexible nonmetallic tubing, which shall be continuous in length between the last support and the enclosure or terminal point.
324-9. Through Walls, Floors, Wood Cross Members, etc
Conductors shall comply with Section 320-11 where passing through holes in structural members. Where passing through wood cross members in plastered partitions, conductors shall be protected by noncombustible, nonabsorbent, insulating tubes extending not less than 3 in. (76 mm) beyond the wood member.
324-10. Clearance from Piping, Exposed Conductors, etc
Conductors shall comply with Section 320-12 for clearances from other exposed conductors, piping, etc.
324-11. Unfinished Attics and Roof Spaces
Conductors in unfinished attics and roof spaces shall comply with (a) or (b).
FPN: See Section 310-10 for temperature limitation of conductors.
(a) Accessible by Stairway or Permanent Ladder. Conductors shall be installed along the side of or through bored holes in floor joists, studs, or rafters. Where run through bored holes, conductors in the joists and in studs or rafters to a height of not less than 7 ft (2.13 m) above the floor or floor joists shall be protected by substantial running boards extending not less than 1 in. (25.4 mm) on each side of the conductors. Running boards shall be securely fastened in place. Running boards and guard strips shall not be required where conductors are installed along the sides of joists, studs, or rafters.
(b) Not Accessible by Stairway or Permanent Ladder. Conductors shall be installed along the sides of or through bored holes in floor joists, studs, or rafters.
Exception: In buildings completed before the wiring is installed, attic and roof spaces that are not accessible by stairway or permanent ladder and have headroom at all points less than 3 ft (914 mm), the wiring shall be permitted to be installed on the edges of rafters or joists facing the attic or roof space.
324-12. Splices
Splices shall be soldered unless approved splicing devices are used. In-line or strain splices shall not be used.
324-13. Boxes
Outlet boxes shall comply with Article 370.
324-14. Switches
Switches shall comply with Sections 380-4 and 380-10(b).