I cant even guess what this is

(Juan C. Jimenez) #1

Alright guys. I hope this isn’t something I should be able to readily identify because I have no idea what it is. Someone help me. I don’t know what the other thing is either. They were both by the water heater and the weird long shaft was part of its plumbing.whatisthis.jpg

weirdcopperthing.jpg

(Juan C. Jimenez) #2

Im not sure why my pics got all messed up like that.

(Bob Elliott, 450.0002662) #3

Juan the extreme closeup and your lack of detail are why you have had no response.

The lower picture is of a air hammer arrestor from what I can tell.

(Greg W. Mathias, CCHI, CMI) #4

[quote="belliott, post:3, topic:68180"]

Juan the extreme closeup and your lack of detail are why you have had no response.

The lower picture is of a air hammer arrestor from what I can tell.
[/QUOTE]

That is what I was thinking Bob.
Do you have any other pictures???

(Juan C. Jimenez) #5

Those are my only pictures. I thought being zoomed in would be better. There really isn't much else to see if i was zoomed out.

Bob, you are right. It is an air hammer arrester. Isn't it kind of useless if it is placed right next to the water heater?

(Bob Elliott, 450.0002662) #6

I have no idea if it is even connected directly as all i see is a copper line with plywood in one shot and aluminum foil around pipe in the other.

Is this an attic as that's what it seems like?

I promise nobody can tell you much more based on what is told or shown.

Not trashing but this is one of the reasons I take so many pictures that others think are never needed.Truth told I was a little mystified by a 2 water heater setup from today and going to download my shots to play detective from the big screen as the seller was angry listening to all the issues and had bullets laying around with my client a ex veteran even nervous around the guy...lol.

Point is I can be distracted once in a while and great shots make it like I am back there looking again.

(Juan C. Jimenez) #7

Yeah I take more and more every time I go on an inspection and they seem to save my *** sometimes. You helped me enough with the water hammer arrester and I dont think any amount of pictures could have helped solve what that other thing is. It was just a piece of copper piping coming from under the box the water heater was on. I have no idea where it came from or what it was doing there.

(Bob Elliott, 450.0002662) #8

Juan make sure to call this out if there was no drain pan and in an attic... terrible place for location which may have many issues.

Have a feeling you will get more response now.

(Chris Walsh, CMI) #9

Juan: The "weird long shaft" in the second photo is a plumbing "Stubb" or "stubby." They are used to rough-in plumbing at the terminus of the plumbing lines for fixtures. They are a 90 degree, and some have a nailing clip on the side of them to nail into the joists. Saves having to solder a 90 elbow, cut a piece of pipe and solder on a cap. Not sure what's going on with it in your photo, though. Maybe a future water hookup??

(Juan C. Jimenez) #10

Wait...I thought it was air hammer arrester. That's what I'm going with. You don't think it is?

Bob. It did have a drip pan but 1) it was also the receptor for the tpr discharge pipe and 2) it was piped to a hole in the soffit. It didn't go down to the ground or anything. Is that allowed? I wrote them both up as defects and safety hazards.

(Bob Elliott, 450.0002662) #11

nternational Plumbing Code
Chapter 5 Water Heaters

CHAPTER 5
WATER HEATERS
SECTION 501
GENERAL
501.1 Scope.
The provisions of this chapter shall govern the materials, design and installation of water heaters and the related safety devices and appurtenances.

501.2 Water heater as space heater.
Where a combination potable water heating and space heating system requires water for space heating at temperatures higher than 140°F (60°C), a master thermostatic mixing valve complying with ASSE 1017 shall be provided to limit the water supplied to the potable hot water distribution system to a temperature of 140°F (60°C) or less. The potability of the water shall be maintained throughout the system.

501.3 Drain valves.
Drain valves for emptying shall be installed at the bottom of each tank-type water heater and hot water storage tank. Drain valves shall conform to ASSE 1005.

501.4 Location.
Water heaters and storage tanks shall be located and connected so as to provide access for observation, maintenance, servicing and replacement.

501.5 Water heater labeling.
All water heaters shall be third-party certified.
501.6 Water temperature control in piping from tankless heaters.
The temperature of water from tankless water heaters shall be a maximum of 140°F (60°C) when intended for domestic uses. This provision shall not supersede the requirement for protective shower valves in accordance with Section 424.3.

501.7 Pressure marking of storage tanks.
Storage tanks and water heaters installed for domestic hot water shall have the maximum allowable working pressure clearly and indelibly stamped in the metal or marked on a plate welded thereto or otherwise permanently attached. Such markings shall be in an accessible position outside of the tank so as to make inspection or reinspection readily possible.

501.8 Temperature controls.
All hot water supply systems shall be equipped with automatic temperature controls capable of adjustments from the lowest to the highest acceptable temperature settings for the intended temperature operating range.

SECTION 502INSTALLATION
502.1 General.
Water heaters shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions. Oil-fired water heaters shall conform to the requirements of this code and the International Mechanical Code. Electric water heaters shall conform to the requirements of this code and provisions of the ICC Electrical Code. Gas-fired water heaters shall conform to the requirements of the International Fuel Gas Code.

502.2 Rooms used as a plenum.
Water heaters using solid, liquid or gas fuel shall not be installed in a room containing air-handling machinery when such room is used as a plenum.

502.3 Water heaters installed in attics.
Attics containing a water heater shall be provided with an opening and unobstructed passageway large enough to allow removal of the water heater. The passageway shall not be less than 30 inches (762 mm) high and 22 inches (559 mm) wide and not more than 20 feet (6096 mm) in length when measured along the centerline of the passageway from the opening to the water heater. The passageway shall have continuous solid flooring not less than 24 inches (610 mm) wide. A level service space at least 30 inches (762 mm) deep and 30 inches (762 mm) wide shall be present at the front or service side of the water heater. The clear access opening dimensions shall be a minimum of 20 inches by 30 inches (508 mm by 762 mm) where such dimensions are large enough to allow removal of the water heater.

502.4 Seismic supports.
Where earthquake loads are applicable in accordance with the International Building Code, water heater supports shall be designed and installed for the seismic forces in accordance with the International Building Code.

SECTION 503
CONNECTIONS
503.1 Cold water line valve.
The cold water branch line from the main water supply line to each hot water storage tank or water heater shall be provided with a valve, located near the equipment and serving only the hot water storage tank or water heater. The valve shall not interfere or cause a disruption of the cold water supply to the remainder of the cold water system. The valve shall be provided with access on the same floor level as the water heater served.

503.2 Water circulation.
The method of connecting a circulating water heater to the tank shall provide proper circulation of water through the water heater. The pipe or tubes required for the installation of appliances that will draw from the water heater or storage tank shall comply with the provisions of this code for material and installation.

SECTION 504
SAFETY DEVICES
504.1 Antisiphon devices.
An approved means, such as a cold water "dip" tube with a hole at the top or a vacuum relief valve installed in the cold water supply line above the top of the heater or tank, shall be provided to prevent siphoning of any storage water heater or tank.

504.2 Vacuum relief valve.
Bottom fed water heaters and bottom fed tanks connected to water heaters shall have a vacuum relief valve installed. The vacuum relief valve shall comply with ANSI Z21.22.

504.3 Shutdown.
A means for disconnecting an electric hot water supply system from its energy supply shall be provided in accordance with the ICC Electrical Code. A separate valve shall be provided to shut off the energy fuel supply to all other types of hot water supply systems.

504.4 Relief valve.
All storage water heaters operating above atmospheric pressure shall be provided with an approved, self-closing (levered) pressure relief valve and temperature relief valve or combination thereof. The relief valve shall conform to ANSI Z21.22. The relief valve shall not be used as a means of controlling thermal expansion.

504.4.1 Installation.
Such valves shall be installed in the shell of the water heater tank. Temperature relief valves shall be so located in the tank as to be actuated by the water in the top 6 inches (152 mm) of the tank served. For installations with separate storage tanks, the valves shall be installed on the tank and there shall not be any type of valve installed between the water heater and the storage tank. There shall not be a check valve or shutoff valve between a relief valve and the heater or tank served.

504.5 Relief valve approval.
Temperature and pressure relief valves, or combinations thereof, and energy cutoff devices shall bear the label of an approved agency and shall have a temperature setting of not more than 210°F (99°C) and a pressure setting not exceeding the tank or water heater manufacturer’s rated working pressure or 150 psi (1035 kPa), whichever is less. The relieving capacity of each pressure relief valve and each temperature relief valve shall equal or exceed the heat input to the water heater or storage tank.

504.6 Requirements for discharge piping.
The discharge piping serving a pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination thereof shall:
1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system.
2. Discharge through an air gap located in the same room as the water heater.
3. Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve served and shall discharge full size to the air gap.
4. Serve a single relief device and shall not connect to piping serving any other relief device or equipment.
5. Discharge to the floor, to an indirect waste receptor or to the outdoors. Where discharging to the outdoors in areas subject to freezing, discharge piping shall be first piped to an indirect waste receptor through an air gap located in a conditioned area.
6. Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural damage.
7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable by the building occupants.
8. Not be trapped.
9. Be installed so as to flow by gravity.
10. Not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor or waste receptor.
11. Not have a threaded connection at the end of such piping.
12. Not have valves or tee fittings.
13. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section 605.4 or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.

504.7 Required pan.
Where water heaters or hot water storage tanks are installed in locations where leakage of the tanks or connections will cause damage, the tank or water heater shall be installed in a galvanized steel pan having a minimum thickness of 24 gage, or other pans approved for such use.

504.7.1 Pan size and drain.
The pan shall be not less than 1.5 inches (38 mm) deep and shall be of sufficient size and shape to receive all dripping or condensate from the tank or water heater. The pan shall be drained by an indirect waste pipe having a minimum diameter of 0.75 inch (19 mm). Piping for safety pan drains shall be of those materials listed in Table 605.4.

504.7.2 Pan drain termination.
The pan drain shall extend full-size and terminate over a suitably located indirect waste receptor or floor drain or extend to the exterior of the building and terminate not less than 6 inches (152 mm) and not more than 24 inches (610 mm) above the adjacent ground surface.

--
Signed, Frank Carrio, CMI
Certified Master Inspector & Consultant
Certified Commercial Building Inspector
Founder & Current President, New Hampshire State Chapter NACHI

(Juan C. Jimenez) #12

Got it thanks man.