Inspect own house?

Local Inspection Issues Florida and SUNachi Inspectors
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468.8316 Continuing education.—
(1) The department may not renew a license until the licensee submits proof satisfactory to the department that during the 2 years before application for renewal the licensee completed at least 14 hours of continuing education. Of the 14 hours, at least 2 hours must be in hurricane mitigation training that includes hurricane mitigation techniques and compliance with the uniform mitigation verification inspection form developed under s. 627.711(2). The department shall adopt rules establishing criteria for approving continuing education providers and courses.*

What exactly is the “home inspection statute”? I can’t seem to find that one…there’s a “home inspectors” statute, but no “home inspection” statute.

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That was my thought process from the beginning

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All kidding aside, it is a good question.

How did the DBPR Home Inspector Licensing Division approve over 40 courses on wind mitigation and 4-point inspections when course approval requires the applicant to submit a written statement on how the course relates to the practice of Home Inspection Services as defined in Section 468.8311(4), F.S?

Eric wouldn’t answer the question……I asked him several times. Here it is again, straight from the statutes and Administrative Code (61-30) of Home Inspectors licensure:

468.8316 Continuing education.—
(1) The department may not renew a license until the licensee submits proof satisfactory to the department that during the 2 years before application for renewal the licensee completed at least 14 hours of continuing education. Of the 14 hours, at least 2 hours must be in hurricane mitigation training that includes hurricane mitigation techniques and compliance with the uniform mitigation verification inspection form developed under s. 627.711(2). The department shall adopt rules establishing criteria for approving continuing education providers and courses.

61-30.503 Course Approval, Prelicensure and Continuing Education.
Prelicensure and continuing education courses shall be valid for purposes of the licensure and continuing education requirement only if such courses have received approval from the Home Inspection Unit before the course is offered. *
*
**(b) *The course provider shall submit to the department the following for course approval before the course is offered: ……a written statement that explains in detail how the course relates to the practice of home inspection services as defined in Section 468.8311(4), F.S.

Someone please tell me, did I read it wrong?

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If there is full disclosure and both parites consent what’s the issue? Fl law and DBPR typically favor the weaker party ( I use the term innocent naive grandma for most examples) and who would that be in a self inspected wind mit? I don’t see the issue here…Insurance companies can always say no

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That is exactly what I was told. It may be a conflict of interest.

I told the insurance company and they said, no problem, just make sure there are clear pictures of the items receiving discounts. :wink:
And, even then, they sent someone out to “look over” our house.
Speaking of which, he slithered his way through the front gate and was walking around on my property and I came out and asked who he was.
When he told me I said you might want to consider knocking on the door or ringing the doorbell next time…where I am from…you would have been shot by now! :slight_smile:

Have a nice weekend everyone…time to go pay the Mouse…

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I first called my insurance agent and also asked them to check with the insurance company. Neither had any issue with me completing the wind mitigation report. Their comments were centered around the fact that there were pictures to prove all credits.

In 2005 the insurance company did a drive by wind mit and left off two important credits (New Home). My report corrected that and has been no issue for many years.

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Sounds good to me…only one slight issue…the statute that allows you to do that is located in the Home Inspector statute which Eric has already said, let me quote “doesn’t apply to wind mitigations”:

468.8321 Disclosures.—Prior to contracting for or commencing a home inspection, a home inspector shall provide to the consumer a copy of his or her license to practice home inspection services in this state and a written disclosure that contains the scope and any exclusions of the home inspection.

Also, “insurers” do not regulate Home Inspectors or wind mitigation inspections, you are asking the wrong entity. Insures are regulated by the OIR B1-1802 form and the content which is to be provided by a authorized inspector…um…you. It’s supposed to be the other way around homie.

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I am not your “homie” Robert…whatever that may mean to you. Once you drop to a sarcastic or similar tone…you no longer have my attention.

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Well, DBPR nor the Insurance companies seem to be to worried about it, and the insurance company can not accept or at any time send their own inspector to double check a report…so I think it’s safe to say at this point we should move on to other things to argue about lol

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Actually, that is false. Florida Statute 627.711 mandates that an insurer must “accept as valid” any OIR B1-1802 form completed by a authorized inspector. There are two other options for the insurer, but neither state that the insurer can simply ignore an authorized inspectors finding within a report. They can only “verify” the inspectors findings at their own expense.
*
627.711(9) At its expense, the insurer may require that a uniform mitigation verification form provided by a policyholder, a policyholder’s agent, or an authorized mitigation inspector or inspection company be independently verified by an inspector, an inspection company, or an independent third-party quality assurance provider that possesses a quality assurance program before accepting the uniform mitigation verification form as valid. At its option, the insurer may exempt from independent verification a uniform mitigation verification form completed by an authorized mitigation inspector or inspection company that possesses a quality assurance program approved by the insurer. A uniform mitigation verification form provided by a policyholder, a policyholder’s agent, or an authorized mitigation inspector or inspection company to Citizens Property Insurance Corporation is not subject to independent verification and the property is not subject to reinspection by the corporation, absent material changes to the structure during the term stated on the form, if the form was signed by an authorized mitigation inspector and submitted to, reviewed by, and verified by a quality assurance program approved by the corporation before submission of the form to the corporation.*

YOU regulate insurers with the information you provide with the form, that is the way it works. You are sent to the home as a authorized mitigation inspector who inspects, and verifies, that mitigation techniques exist on the home and are in fact installed properly and free from material defects including aging and existing damage.

YOU tell the insurer what to do and how to do it…you are supposed to be the trained professional, that is why “home inspectors” were only added to the form after they were licensed.

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The quote says "Prior to contracting for or commencing "a home inspection".

A Home Inspection is defined as an inspection meeting all the requirements listed in the law. A Wind Mitigation does not, meet those requirements.

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The DBPR Home Inspection Licensing Program has over 40 approved courses on wind mitigation, 4-Point, and Roof Certification inspections. Both FAC 61-30.503(2)b and the Education Course Application Form require that the course, content, title, and a detailed statement in how the course relates to the practice of home inspection services as defined in section 468.8311(4) be submitted with the form to even be considered for course approval.

***61-30.503 Course Approval, Prelicensure and Continuing Education. **
(1) Prelicensure and continuing education courses shall be valid for purposes of the licensure and continuing education requirement only if such courses have received approval from the Home Inspection Unit before the course is offered.
**(2) *The department shall approve education courses for two years from the date approved when the following requirements are met:
(b) The course provider shall submit to the department the following for course approval before the course is offered: an application, a detailed course outline describing the course’s content and subject matter, and a written statement that explains in detail how the course relates to the practice of home inspection services as defined in Section 468.8311(4), F.S.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2mnnhns.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/343njgk.jpg

Now what?

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The declaratory statement and the law clearly state that wind mitigation are not part of a home inspection:

Then the law requires that HIs be educated in wind mitigation:

So it is proper to approve wind mitigation classes for Home inspectors because they are required to have the education and specifically how to fill-out the form. It is obvious this was done so HIs could complete the 1802 form.

If I am remembering correctly contractors must be trained in wind mitigation methodologies but it does not specifically list the 1802 form.

As with most laws there are some inconsistencies. The OIR regulates wind mitigation and allows certain licenses to complete the form that they regulate. This is not a perfect situation but it allows HIs to fill-out the form especially during a home inspection. If HIs were not allowed then contractors would have to also visit the house and this would hurt the home inspection industry and probably have an effect on the Real Estate industry and the buying public. This would be similar to the situation before HIs were licensed.

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Yeah when we made $150.00 per inspection before licensing. That was just terrible. Now anyone can do them and it does not pay squat.

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That is not accurate, not even close:

***627.711 Notice of premium discounts for hurricane loss mitigation; uniform mitigation verification inspection form.—*I]
(5) The licensing board of an authorized mitigation inspector that violates subsection (4) may commence disciplinary proceedings and impose administrative fines and other sanctions authorized under the authorized mitigation inspector’s licensing act. Authorized mitigation inspectors licensed under s. 471.015 or s. 489.111 shall be directly liable for the acts of employees that violate subsection (4) as if the authorized mitigation inspector personally performed the inspection.

The things you are teaching inspectors is incorrect, you are going to get an inspector in trouble if you keep doing it. You have ZERO authority to tell any Home Inspector how to interpret the laws of their licensure other than what they actually say…ZERO.

As I have said before, each Home Inspector should take the laws and rules that govern their licensure to their legal counsel for review. It’s only then that their eyes will be truly opened.

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That’s a direct result of lowering the standards of completing the form to just checking a box. Now, who do you know teaches inspectors to do that?

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Just to clarify what John is referencing here, back in 2015 a Declaratory Statement was issued to the DBPR Home Inspector Licensing Division asking them to state that the Standards of Practice for Home Inspectors did not apply to insurance inspections (wind mits & 4-points). The Department promptly “declined” to comment. The reason given was that that the Department did not have the statutory authority to do so when it comes to insurance inspections. PERIOD!

There you have it……the Department was squarely asked to state that Home inspectors were exempt from their Standards of Practice when performing these inspections. And the Department responded with “sorry Charlie, we do not have the statutory authority to comment on anything that doesn’t meet the definition of home inspections services”.

That’s it……no comment……declined to initiate rule making.

Unfortunately, some are interpreting it as a rule making even though it stated right in the response “the Department declines to initiate rule making”. The Department never said what John is saying they said, they only said “we are not going to comment as we DO NOT have the statutory authority to do so”.

What John heard: Home Inspector Standards of Practice do not apply to insurance inspections.

What was actually said: We are not going to comment on the applicability of Home Inspectors Standards of Practice to insurance inspections as we do not have the statutory authority to do so as we do not consider them as meeting the definition of home inspection services.

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No…it is a result of those that sell themselves cheaply…:wink:

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In an effort to provide Home Inspectors factual information instead of hearsay and false statements, let’s go ahead and review EXACTLY what was said and not said in the Declaratory Statement John likes to incorrectly cite.

First, here is the question that was asked by the petitioner:

“the petitioner asks that DBPR state unequivocally that the Standards of Practice for home inspectors do not apply to inspections performed outside the scope of “home inspections” as defined by 468 FS”

Seem pretty straight forward, no? All the Department would need to do is say no, home inspector Standards of Practice do not apply to these inspections. What could be so difficult?

Well, here was their response exactly as it’s written:

  1. With regard to the instant case, the Department cannot issue a declaratory statement on this matter without issuing a statement of general applicability. Accordingly, the Department declines to issue a declaratory statement.***

17. Finally, if the Petitioner intended for the Petition to be treated as a petition to initiate rulemaking, the Department notes that is has adopted the standards of practice for the performance of home inspection services, as defined in section 4868.8311(4), Florida Statutes (2014), that are provided by licensed home inspectors in the state of Florida. The Department further notes that it does not have the statutory authority to promulgate standards of practice rules for the performance of wind mitigation or 4-point inspections to the extent that these inspections do not also meet the definition of home inspection services as defined in section 468.8311(4), Florida Statutes (2014). Accordingly, the Department declines to initiate rule making.

Essentially, figure it out yourself. The Department has been asked a total of 3 times to state that home inspector standards of practice either DO or DO NOT apply to insurance inspections. ALL THREE TIMES THEY DECLINED TO COMMENT!

Now, can anyone point to any statement released by the DBPR Home Inspector Licensing Division that states “Home Inspectors are legally exempt from home inspection standards of practice when they perform insurance inspections with their license”?

Now for the real fun. The petitioner asked the Department to state “the Standards of Practice for home inspectors do not apply to inspections performed outside the scope of “home inspections” as defined by 468 FS”. That same person, including John, teach Home Inspectors how to perform wind mitigation and 4-point inspections with course material that had to relate to the practice of “home inspections” as defined in section 468.83112(4) to even be considered for approval by the Department. The Department has approved over 40 insurance inspection courses in total that, per their own admission, relate to the practice of “home inspections” se defined in section 468.8311(4), adopted via rule of law by the Department under FAC 61-30.503(2)b.

tehe…have a nice day

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Mr. Shishilla, are you authorized by the DBPR Home Inspector Licensing Division to initiate “rulemaking” on the applicability of Florida Statute 468.83 or the rules of FAC 61-30 to ANY inspection performed by a licensed home inspector?

I know I’m not, that’s why I don’t. I simply show inspectors what the statutes and rules say when they operate as a licensed Home Inspector. And as the statute says:

*468.8319 Prohibitions; penalties.—
**(1) **A person may not:
**(a) *Effective July 1, 2011, practice or offer to practice home inspection services unless the person has complied with the provisions of this part.
(b) Effective July 1, 2011, use the name or title “certified home inspector,” “registered home inspector,” “licensed home inspector,” “home inspector,” “professional home inspector,” or any combination thereof unless the person has complied with the provisions of this part.

Now, what do you suppose “this part” means when you use the name “home inspector”?