Is Canadian National Certification dying?

Hey Nick it seems a lot of things are dying in Ontario. Including Oahi.
I have yet to hear the same story twice out of these folks. They seem to be masters at spreading disinformation.

Where has all the money gone anyway? There have been no properly tabled changes in OAHI to do anything, the decisions are being made behind closed doors by OAHI appointed members to CAHPI BOD. No one has even seen the BOD Minutes all year to know what has been decided. Now the AGM documents are out they will certainly seek a motion from the floor at the AGM seeking approval of the 2005 BOD minutes. What minutes? How can you approve that which has not been released? Personally if I had voting privileges I would not vote on approval of anything. And I would strongly suggest those that can vote in Oahi at the AGM and cannot attend would be very wise to send in proxy B. Proxy A allows the person designated to vote on your behalf to vote carte blanc on everything including motions from the floor of the AGM. Proxy B only allows affirmation or rejection of the tabled motions.

Seems to me that either C.A.P.H.I. caves to O.A.H.I. and basically lets them run the show ( rubber stamping all O.A.H.I. inspectors) and at the same time cutting out all other associations ( free and open, welcoming to all inspectors?:roll: ) or, C.A.P.H.I. cuts O.A.H.I. loose and the whole rotten house of cards collapses.

Maybe it is time for our association to step forward with our own national certification programme ( after all ‘we’ have the only association owned / operated training facility in Canada - the “House of Horrors”). We are the largest and fastest growing organization in Canada with active members coast to coast and are certainly up to the job. Maybe it is time to take the lead in this sorry mess. Obviously the children cannot get along and the whole programme is about lost.

I have always maintained and stated OAHI is the hinge pin in CAHPI. There have always been two camps within OAHI, those being for and against CAHPI. Perhaps there is a third camp; that being undecided.

In my opinion, OAHI standards are equal or better than CAHPI’s National Standards. Lets face it folks OAHI wrote the book on Home Inspection Associations standards in Canada. For the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone would want to be certified for an unkown commodity, that being National Certification.

Just as there are three camps in OAHI, there are three areas up for domination in Ontario: those being CAHPI, OAHI, and NACHI. Of the three, CAHPI and OAHI would likely have the most to lose. After all it is nothing more than another self regulating body. We know self regulation does not work and is not working in Ontario.

Just my opinions, and my observations since 1991. :slight_smile:

I would not give it much thought.
I have just finished 4 days of the best class room instruction ever.
*Good teachers well attended. *

  • I expected from what I had been hearing from some of the leade**rs of CAHPI/OAHI.*
    *I waws pleasently surprised too find so many integant very experienced inspectors. *
    Many lady inspectors that are as good or better then most OAHI inspectors.
    There was more then 20 Canadians there and we where treated great.
  • I am guessing but I think there was about 800 inspectos there. They had so many good classes to attend it was hard to make up my mind. Char attended all classes I did cost $50.00. They had lawyers, efis,mold,Radon,temites, defect recognition Two different A.C. two Different Plumbing. Hundreds of Priz.*es one a new Ford F150, $1,500,00 HI tools
    *Sorry If I am rabling classes start at 8:00 and run to 5:00. Every one who attended got a freeweb site. The new Free NACHI card with your picture was *
    *Supplied to all thos who attended. *
  • Longer report when I get back to Canada. *

I also could care less about OAHI/CAHPI . The future with NACHI in Canada looks bright to me and and I expect OAHI/CAHPI is going to be wondering what they Did wrong.I Also have much more very interesting Info to give out soon .
Roy Sr.

  • Glad to be A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER*
  • Roy Sr. *

I’m wondering why we haven’t heard from Claude yet. He put a lot of hours into the National and I’d like to hear his take on this.
It seems to me from what I’ve read, that OAHI, without naming names, doesn’t want NACHI members allowed into the Certification program unless they join OAHI first.
Any comments?

This is exactally what I have been fighting from the get go. I had heard rumors to the effect that we would not be allowed to be part of the certification unless we joined CAHPI and to join CAHPI we would have to, of course, join OAHI. I asked very pointed questions about this and after much gnashing of teeth and an email to Mr. joe Fontana, the then Minister for Housing, I was assured that we would not have to join the “other” association to be part of the process. So, now we find out the truth. If OAHI can’t get their way they are going to take their ball and bat and go home. That they are worried about the RHI designation being worthless is rather moot. All the RHI designation allows OAHI to do is to treat their non RHI members with impunity. The old boys club at OAHI must be fuming at this as the certification will now open the doors for all home inspectors in Canada to be on a level playing field.
I think it is time for a lobby campaign to the new minister to force CAHPI to recognize NACHI as a major player in the industry. With what is coming down the pike for Canadian NACHI members this year we will be far more than the “irrelevant” force that Bill Mullen predicted we would be following the OAHOI conference last October. I have said this all along, this to me is not about helping the industry become recognized, this is about filling CAHPI/OAHI coffers because of the presence of the best association for the industry, NACHI. I would hazard to bet that there are more applicants for the pilot project for certification from NACHI than from OAHI.
And the fun in Canada continues. I think CMHC has been backed into a corner on this one and will have to recognize a new overseer to administer the certification. I didn’t believe that CAHPI was the governing body to do this and I still don’t.

If you only new half the story guys. The turf war will be won via Public Relations. OAHI has never effectively utilized PR! They don’t have the expertise, nor the conceptual skills required to do so. Their latest PR venture which was a draw to the Caribbean was a complete dismal PR failure. A waste of membership money, time and effort!

Here is a quip from a Director in Oahi who doesn’t seem to understand his role as a director, is on a power trip and damn the rules, it is his way or the highway! When asked to show cause for his rulings or actions or where in the by-laws he is permitted to do so, the reply came back he didn’t have time for games and was a volunteer! I thought directors had a duty to act diligently and with a standard of care?

Believe me this attitude is pervasive in OAHI. They are their own worst enemy.

**Raymond, please substantiate any and/or all of your claims. It is my position that all of this is false save the fact that I am the Registrar of the AATO.

Your message is not that of a professional and is of a very amateurish script. Perhaps you should take some Ethics courses, English courses or start writing for a tabloid.

This message has been BCC’d to the executive of the OAHI and will become part of a complaint I will forward to the DPPC if you can or do not substantiate this message within 24 hours or retract it with a full apology on the forum it was posted and any/all other forums you posted to.


Andrew Bennett RHI A.Sc.T. M.A.A.T.O.
BOD member of OAHI

This e-mail message is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed in its original format and is confidential, subject to copyright and may be legally privileged. Any unauthorized review, use or disclosure is prohibited. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies of the e-mail together with any attachments.**

Yes and I am still waiting. I am also waiting to hear why my other complaints lodged sometime ago have never been officially replied to? I guess Mr. Bennett will have to take a number. I have lodged a complaint to the DPPC and an Appeal regarding Mr. Bennetts actions well before this latest letter.

**The new Conservative Minister of CMHC, Labour and Housing?

Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Labour and Housing**
Mr. Blackburn was MP for the riding of Jonquière in the Mulroney government, rising to parliamentary secretary to the Minister of National Defence. He is currently president of Blackburn Communication Inc., which specializes in business development and public relations.
Campaign Biography

Do you happen to have his email address or is that info not yet available.

Hi Larry

I was in touch with my local MP David Tilson earlier today and he informed me that email addresses have not yet been assigned. Hopefully that will occur next week.

You know what… it is time for N.A.C.H.I. in Canada to start showing to the public and the other HI organizations that we are the power to be recond with. We should start agressively promoting our organization to all inspectors across the country. We need to get Ontario’s ducks in a line and the rest of the country will gladly jump on board ( Now there is a frightening mixed metaphor if there ever was one!)

With O.A.H.I., CAPHI, and God knows who else fighting it out in the street it is becoming very obvious that there is no NATIONAL HI organization other than N.A.C.H.I for inspectors to join. There is certainly no other organization that will represent their best interests to the government or the public. We must move into this void and others will follow.

O.A.H.I. and C.A.P.H.I. can fiddle as Rome burns. We at N.A.C.H.I. can rise above the noise and become a truly pan-Canadian organization. I think that a letter writing campaing is a good way to start and Emails to the new minister will help too. Perhaps a regular supply of press releases to news papers, television and radio stations would at least displace the nonesense from C.A.P.H.I. and O.A.H.I.

Stand by George its comming soon ( Dave B. Please Note ) OAHI/CAHPI do not know it but they really are on their last legs.
I learned so much at the NACHI conference that I am no longer the least bit concerned about those and their Secret Group working on the NATIONAL certification .
I recommend all those inspectors close to Toronto to come to the NACHI torono meeting this month. I am in Virginia on my way Back Home . Talk to you more soon .
Roy Cooke sr. R.H.I… CAHPI-ON… a Happy NACHI Member

I can’t ask these very important questions on the OAHI Cafe so forgive me for posting them here. Perhaps members in OAHI who come to this site to get their news may wish to ask these very important questions at the AGM or the CAFE for that matter before the AGM.

  1. Where are the year end audited financial results for December 31, 2005? Only the un-audited November 30, 2005 results have been included with the AGM materials. How can one approve the year end audited figures at the AGM then? Even if they are provided at the AGM…who has had time to review them?

  2. Revenue projections for membership dues in 2006 are 36% higher than 2005 results provided, yet the increase in the dues that members pay is only 14% ($400 versus $350). Where then are the new members coming from given that dues revenue has been in decline (2005 - $186,895; 2004 - $231,716; 2003 - $260,558)? This does not seem to be a conservative budget.

  3. Revenue from courses, and in particular Defect Recognition and Part 9, are budgeted for 2006 at $248,900 yet revenues shown as of November 2005 total only $104,837. The 2006 budget reflects almost 2.5 times more in revenue over 2005. What is prompting this? It does not appear to be a conservative budget, given these revenues have been in decline as well (2005 - $104,837; 2004 - $154,069; 2003 - $151,161).

  4. Education Program revenue is budgeted at $39,160 for 2006 with revenue to November 2005 at only $24,708. This is a forecasted increase of 58% more in revenues for 2006. OAHI budgeted $48,000 in 2005 in Education revenues but only realized $24,708 for 2005. In 2004, they budgeted $35,415 but got $25,020. This does not seem to be a conservative budget.

  5. CAHPI / CAHI dues are being forecasted despite a proposed motion at the upcoming AGM to suspend participation. The budgeted CAHPI / CAHI fees for 2006 total some $72,300 which is more than the budgeted membership dues increase. Why the need then for a membership fee increase?

  6. Why is there a need for a membership dues increase (and without membership approval), given OAHI was ahead of its 2004 budget by over $100,000 and the 2005 results to November ahead of budget by some $145,000 to November 2005? In other words, OAHI has beat its budget by over $200,000 in 2004 and 2005, yet has increased membership dues for 2006?

  7. In 2004 and 2003, OAHI had a net benefit from courses, and in particular Defect Recognition and Part 9 (about $40,000 in 2004 and $30,000 in 2003). In 2005 they are showing about a $30,000 profit however for 2006 it is only $20,000 despite a staggering increase of almost 2.5 times in total revenue from the courses being provided. Why?

  8. In a year of increased membership fees…presumably to maintain if not improve membership benefits, it would appear that only a mere $6,000 more (or a total of $55,220) is being budgeted on Public & Member Relations (most notably advertising / marketing). In the past, these budgeted funds are notorious for not being spent. In 2005, $83,000 was budgeted with only $49,000 spent as of November 2005. Similarly, this was the case for 2004. Why should the membership expect even this marketing to be carried out? Where then are the increased membership dues going? Are membership dues increasing as result of declining membership numbers? Does this not suggest that overhead should be cut instead / as well?

  9. Again, where are the 2005 AUDITED Financial Statements? Has the OAHI auditor reviewed the 2006 budget figures for reasonableness? Why did membership dues increase for 2006? Where are the quarterly financial statements? Why are OAHI’s budgeting practices consistently NOT conservative? Why do the budgeting practices run contrary to Article 20 of the bylaw? Who the hell is in charge of this financial fiasco? Can you spell E-N-R-O-N?

  10. With regard to BOD minutes where are they? I haven’t seen any for the year. How do you know what is being done by your BOD? Previous years BOD Minutes have been available/provided why the lapse in precedent? How can one approve the Minutes at the AGM then, without disclosure of same? Even if they are provided at the AGM…who has had time to review them?

You guys from Ont think you have the god given right to tell everybody else in the country what to do. Statements like
“If your not a member of OAHI you are an incompetent inspector”.
Alberta had a home inspection Assoc long before ON.
I had the pleasure of meeting a full time HI from BC way back in late 70’s. Long before OAHI existed. Where do you get off telling everyone that OAHI wrote the book, more like you copied it.
All you do is yip and yap about it. but do you ever do anything?

Its because OAHI slid a bill through the House to have RHI recognized. They think they are the be and end all of the industry now. When it came to picking an association to join I could only find one choice. I think you now the rest.

Please Vern do not include those inspectors with the OAHI group. I am Canadian all the way. I do believe many in OAHI are the same . there is intimadation in oAHI big time and some of their members have found out if the speak their mind they are chastised.
I am sure OAHI will implode and we can then carry on improving the inspection indusry all the way across Canada.

Ontario has more representation on CAHPI then anyother province. That is because Ontario is the largest of the provincial associations.

You have no idea what is going on in OAHI, and you have no idea to what extremes they go to thwart good governance or shut down those willing to show the truth. Some of these same bozo’s are on the BOD of CAHPI.

Only a thorough full audit of CAHPI and OAHI will reveal what is what.

A home inspector and observer and participant since 1991.

Slow down Ray, he is on our side. If any body has been following these threads for any length of time they are well aware of what is going on. You, and others, have been keeping us informed as to the goings on re the National Initiative and the CAHPI/OAHI debacle. We thank you for it and please keep up the info. Vern is most likely upset 'cause he had to cancel his initial meeting for the new chapter. I frankly don’t blame him for being a little pi%&ed I would be too. I have put together 3 meetings, with help of course, and I can sympathize with him as to the hours put in for no result.

Oh and by the way here is another corker…

Mr. Graham Clarke, an OAHI Past President, and President of Carson Dunlop is the Chair of the National Certification Authority.

Mr. Mullen has now stated to OAHI members that questions/concerns be directed to Mr. Clarke. Seems Mr. Mullen can’t make any headway in OAHI either.

Now the next question… who is going to certify the certifiers who will oversee the mock inspection and approval? What came first the chicken or the egg? Where has all the money gone honey?

Anyone seen the Invisible Man? :mrgreen: