I have a condo building by the beach that is replacing its windows to impact. However some some unit owners are purchasing small missile impact rated windows and other large. My question, are all small missile impacted rated windows/doors level B credit on the mitigation form? Also, how can the city allow small missile impact being installed in a high velocity hurricane zone?
Small missile allowed above 30’. No box on 1802 for small missile. Must be small and large for class a on 1802. The type 2 and 3 form describes small missile and will allow class a, but that form is for the whole building. A glich since the 1802 is not meant for condo units. You should just document whats there and can reference the type 2/3 form to show those windows are acceptacle
Underwriters know about this and will accept it as “A” with explanation (must be above 30’ to count). The pressure rating is higher with these windows, which are specialty units for high rise condos. I’m surprised you haven’t ran into this yet, but things may be different in the HVHZ.
As I have always said, and will continue to say, “stop listening to or asking the underwriter what you should and should not be doing”. They have no idea as YOU are the licensed professional in the industry…not them.
Can you guys see it now? The reason why small missile impact rated products are not listed on the 1802 is it’s for “residential” properties only! The form gets classified by single unit dwellings and buildings. Buildings are limited to 3 stories and single units to 4.
The underwriter is accepting the wrong form, the “unit” owner doesn’t even own the windows and doors as they are considered common elements of the structure. It was your job to tell the client this and make sure they know what form to get.
Small missile is required between 30’ and 60’, design pressure is required above 60’ only…you’re using the wrong form. The underwriter accepting an 1802 for a non-residential structure equates to tweendle-dee and tweedle-dumb, two people who have absolutely no idea what they are doing and completely ripping the customer off.
We are going to lose these forms, for good. And this is part of the reason why! They will be deemed useless and providing inaccurate and worthless information. If a permit verifies compliance, why doesn’t the underwriter just call the building department? Who needs an inspector?
Instructors, and there are a few who frequent this forum, are teaching worthless information. When was the last time you took a wind mitigation course that actually taught you mitigation techniques? You know, the mitigation techniques listed in the Florida Building Code: Existing Building? That’s what you are supposed to be doing, inspecting the property and informing your client of when and where they can install these features to harden their homes. That was the intent of the form in the first place, that installed mitigation features prevent damages during a storm to existing structures built to a lesser building code…everyone knows this. The only one’s who don’t seem to know it are the self-proclaimed “instructors” who don’t seem to know there arse from their elbow. The azz-hattery currently being performed in our industry is unmatched in any other industry…
This chapter provides prescriptive methods for partial structural retrofit of an existing building to increase the resistance of gable end walls to out-of-plane wind loads. It is intended for voluntary use and for reference by mitigation programs. The provisions of this chapter do not necessarily satisfy requirements for new construction. Unless specifically cited, the provisions of this chapter do not necessarily satisfy requirements for structural improvements triggered by addition, alteration, repair, change of occupancy, building relocation or other circumstances.
What you guys are doing is absolutely crazy, and it’s going to cost us even more damage to our reputations and even greater consequences for the customer who thinks his home is safe because you spent 15 minutes there and filled out a form saying everything was good.
Once again, Mr Sheppard, you don’t know what the hell you are talking about when it refers to the 1802. Wind Mitigations on the 1802 form are performed every day on Type II & III buildings for individual dwelling units. The windows and doors with associated Opening Protection Devices are almost always owned and maintained be the unit owner, not the HOA. Some buildings assess the individual owners for this if the entire building is outfitted with opening protection. If the HOA wants a wind mitigation done for the entire building (more than 3 floors), then the 1802 is not used. The Type II & III form is 8 yrs old, which needs to be updated, and you Mr Sheppard, cannot fill out that form…you are not qualified.:twisted:
Bradley, can you show me where in my statement I said the 1802 wasn’t being used for these types of inspections? They are most definitely being used, that was the point. Also, you might want to look up the statutory reference for “unit”, I have it but you can find it yourself…
Not even with by building inspectors certification?
They cannot. They would have to change the definition of a “unit” in their condo documents and would be in violation of State Law.
See below. I put in bold what you need to know.
624.604 “Property insurance” defined.—“Property insurance” is insurance on real or personal property of every kind and of every interest therein, whether on land, water, or in the air, against loss or damage from any and all hazard or cause, and against loss consequential upon such loss or damage, other than noncontractual legal liability for any such loss or damage. Property insurance may contain a provision for accidental death or injury as part of a multiple peril homeowner’s policy. Such insurance, which is incidental to the property insurance, is not subject to the provisions of this code applicable to life or health insurance. Property insurance does not include title insurance, as defined in s. 624.608.
627.4025 Residential coverage and hurricane coverage defined.—
(1) Residential coverage includes both personal lines residential coverage, which consists of the type of coverage provided by homeowner, mobile home owner, dwelling, tenant, condominium unit owner, cooperative unit owner, and similar policies, . Residential coverage for personal lines and commercial lines as set forth in this section includes policies that provide coverage for particular perils such as windstorm and hurricane or coverage for insurer insolvency or deductibles.
627.0625 Commercial property and casualty risk management plans.—
(1) For the purposes of this section, the term:
(a) “Commercial property insurance” means insurance as defined in s. 624.604, but limited to coverage of commercial risks, excluding windstorm coverage, flood insurance, federal crop insurance, crop hail insurance, the Pollution Liability Insurance Association, and other federal governmental pools and associations. If separate rates and supporting experience data are and commercial lines residential coverage, which consists of the type of coverage provided by condominium association, cooperative association, apartment building, and similar policies, including policies covering the common elements of a homeowners association not filed and justified for windstorm coverage, the insurer shall, using generally accepted actuarial and economic principles and techniques, identify and justify the premiums, losses, reserves, and associated data for the windstorm coverage excluded from commercial property insurance.