Originally Posted By: jmertins This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thank you Nick for saying it the correct way about why people would not get hired to be a new inspector…and you are right you cannot compare it other trades in terms of how you move up the ladder.
It's funny I was driving today thinking about how trying to be a new HI is very similar to how Hitler's regime rose to power in the 1920-and 30's.( I hold a history degree) the story is much longer and if anyone would like to discuss it call me!!
Basically it's climb the ladder that was in place and once you reach the top.... break all the rungs beneath or change the rules/laws so no one can take you down.
I have two years under my belt....155 inspects...no law suits...and 1 refund for a garage door opener that the seller said I broke. I hope someday I will be a multi-inspector firm...we will see.
Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Everywhere licensing is adopted the number of inspectors goes up, not down. This is because licensing officially turns the industry into a profession which is a greater encouragement than the fulfillment of mere minimal licensing requirements is a deterrent.
This is true for every state that adopted licensing except for Mass. (only recently) but that was due to E&O insurance rates.
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Licensing has NEVER been proven to help the consumer. And, if you really think about where all the “consumer complaints” (never quantified by the way) came from, the most likely candidates are “seasoned” inspectors. These are the same inspectors who get grandfathered.
So, shut out the guy with commercial experience, because he's not a "home" inspector. Shut out the code enforcement oficial, because he's not a "home" inspector. Hell, shut everyone out.
That's what these licensing proposals are really about. Quantify a single documented benefit to the licensing laws from the consumer's point of view.
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: John Bowman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
gromicko wrote:
There is a problem with comparing other licensed industries with the home inspection industry when discussing indentured servitude. I have been licensed in several trades and licensed in real estate... but those industries have many many multi-employee firms where you can get paid for on-the-job training. I certainly got on-the-job training as a mason, an electrician, a plumber, and a REALTOR. But it is very difficult to get on-the-job training as a home inspector. There are so few multi-inspector firms. The 9 shysters at PHIC for instance never hired a single helper their entire careers until they started suckering newbies into an indentured servitude scheme, and then they didn't pay... they charged! The H.I. industry can be compared to other industries in many ways but just can't be compared to other industries when discussing on-the-job training.
I would venture to say that most home inspection businesses would have to go the route of "indentured servant" vs. "hiring".
Once a business starts hiring inspection trainees the rules change drastically for the business owner. Workman's Comp, Insurance, etc. come in to play and make a huge impact on lowering the business owners bottom line.
If anyone is considering entering the home inspection industry as a career change, now is the time. The future looks bleek for anyone trying to enter the industry, unless organizations such as NACHI take a firm step forward in addressing "mentoring programs", E & O Insurance, Training, Testing, etc. This has got to be the only profession that I have ever seen that seems to be dictated and regulated by anyone but the Home Inspector professionals themselves.
"Consumer Protection" is of utmost importance. But strangulation of an "Industry" is not the answer. Somewhere in the middle there has got to be a suitable end to the means. The three year training period holds a lot of merit, but perhaps a one to three year probationary liscense would be better equipped to handle the situation.
Good Luck Florida, I wish you only the best. You have a fight on your hands as evidenced in this thread.
I truly wish NACHI would once again activate a Legislative Committee. Their duties would not be the writing up of "model legislation", etc., but would entail monitoring, and performing studies that could be utilized as submissions to state legislatures that could impact state laws.
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Greg, thanks for answering my questions. That said, do you really think making somebody have 300 inspections to become licensed is a good thing? Don’t get me wrong, I think licensing done RIGHT can be a good thing. But that would shut out about all newbies. Short term effects would be minimal. But 5, 10 or 15 years down the road when the established inspectors retire, there would be a drastic shortage.
I think requiring certain tests/training is a much better alternative. I agree with Nick that comparing our industry to the other licensed industries is a big mistake. First, the rules in them also vary. But even still finding work as an apprentice is quite easy. Many kids right out of high school go into roles like that in plumbing, electrical, framing, etc. And they get paid. Try posing as a newbi and asking some guys in your area for 300 inspections with them, even for FREE. Then you will see why that license law would shut out everyone.
Originally Posted By: gbell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I would like to clear the air a little bit. I am not for or against licensing of any kind. The examples I gave were what Florida has done in the past when they have regulated other industries. They were not meant to compare apples to apples. Out of my examples I think the appraiser is a good comparison for our industry. Look at what they have to go through to get a license now. Two years of OJT, schooling and state recognized testing. Were all of these requirements enacted all at once? NO They were fazed in over time. Whether it is right or wrong it does make their industry appear to be more professional and accountable.
With that said the facts are that someday we will have legislation here and probably in the rest of the country. I think that most of us can agree that it would be in our best interest to have some type of level playing field. That everyone is required to meet the same minimum standards. For us isn?t that the purpose of licensing?
I have read over the FAPHI legislative position, the principle is good. But how does registering with the state create competent inspectors? They repeatedly write about having competent inspectors with no means of creating one or insuring that someone continues to be.
If all of you could move past the thought of shutting someone out and consider that we would be improving our image in the public eye. Think about what we do, we help the consumer with what will most likely be their biggest financial expense in their life. Our experience or lack of can ruin a family if we do a poor job.
As it stands now anyone can decide today that they want to be a home inspector and start work tomorrow. Is that good for the public? Does that set a professional image for our industry? It seems that many are more concerned with someone not being able to become an inspector rather than insuring that the inspectors we have are qualified to do the job. What is wrong with raising the bar for ourselves and anyone that decides they want to become an inspector in the future?
Forgive me but the Clemons house comes to mind. This is one family who has lost everything because they bought a house that turned out to have serious damages. Damages that in my opinion could have been found by a competent inspector. Since we have no oversight of our industry here they are required to go through the legal system to find out who is accountable. Here we are 18 months later and they are still trying to work it through our current system. The inspection company has numerous new complaints because they continue to operate in the same manner. This type of situation makes all of us look bad.
But hey they are able to be in business and that seems to be the most important concern here.
Originally Posted By: gbell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
That is just it Jerry.
Most of these people don't realize or care that you have been in this fight for some time. You have probably forgot more issues on this than most of us know.
I spoke with FABI yesterday so I will be joining your ranks soon.
Originally Posted By: jburkeson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Greg,
I am mostly in agreement with you, and in theory we would all hope that stricter requirements and mandatory CEU's would in fact equate to a higher level of ethics and professionalism, but the data from past efforts in other licensed trades does not correlate well with this theory.
What we find instead in many cases, is the worst elements within these professions end up running the licensing boards and impinging their wills on those who are less aggressive and less politically connected.
History is replete with examples of how these types of efforts backfire, and it makes good sense too since the types of personalities that would cheat their customers, cut corners and believe that it was alright to get over on the public, would in fact rise to the top within politically oriented licensing boards. The only thing that is necessary for these types to take over is having good people stand by and do nothing. That is how licensing boards around the country regularly become populated with those who are not the best and brightest within the profession, simply because they have much practice on how to get over on the system and people in general.
I wish that I could believe that licensing will cure the ills within our profession and truly provide protection to families like the Clemons, but I don't think it will happen. Home Inspector licensing will be what licensing is everywhere, a barrier to free trade and a vehicle for a chosen class to obtain and hold power over another group. The public will see virtually no difference in the level of professionalism.
BTW I believe your choice to join FABI is a good one, when licensing finally comes to Florida, FABI will be the model that the state will use for CEU's, and being on the inside can't hurt either. 
-- Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)
?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
If all of you could move past the thought of shutting someone out and consider that we would be improving our image in the public eye. Think about what we do, we help the consumer with what will most likely be their biggest financial expense in their life. Our experience or lack of can ruin a family if we do a poor job.
A license might improve our image, agreed. But setting a level that would be impossible for new inspectors to reach because of lack of opportunities would shut them out and would be a disservice to the consumer. When the supply of licensed inspectors exceeds the demand, the consumer is hurt.
Look at it this way, if you require a minimum of training, liability coverage, and an exam you can ensure an inspector knows the required knowledge to become licensed in a field. Much like contractors are often licensed. I am a licensed emergency medical technician. I have a huge amount of liability when I operate under that license. I did not have to ride on 300 ambulance calls to become licensed. Instead I had to take a 120 hour course, complete a written and practical exam, and pass a background check.
Originally Posted By: gbell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree with you 100% also Joe. Everything you say is true. I love to read the posts that you and John B make you both write so eloquently.
But the reality is that we will have some type of licensing here during our careers. I may be wrong but I do think that the past will be used to determine the future.
Originally Posted By: gbell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Another valid point Daniel.
I hope that the powers that be can hash this out like we have and come to a fair and reasonable conclusion.
The bottom line is that we will have to adapt to what ever is done. We can only help to influence the process we are not the ones who have the final say in the process.
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree 100%. I am for licensing done right. Licensing should be designed to protect the consumer from fly by night scam artists, but should not be so stringent as to prevent newcomers to the industry either by making it too restrictive or too costly.
Originally Posted By: jburkeson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
gbell wrote:
But the reality is that we will have some type of licensing here during our careers. I may be wrong but I do think that the past will be used to determine the future.
Very true, that type of thinking is the exact reason why I too joined FABI this year. 
I would so like to believe that there will in fact be a level playing field for all of us, but I can't afford to allow my hopes to interfere with reality, and my business must come first if any of this is ever going to matter.
-- Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)
?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
gbell wrote:
That is just it Jerry.
Most of these people don't realize or care that you have been in this fight for some time. You have probably forgot more issues on this than most of us know.
I spoke with FABI yesterday so I will be joining your ranks soon.
Greg,
Will you be making the December seminar? See you there if you do (and you should, it will be a good one).
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jburkeson wrote:
BTW I believe your choice to join FABI is a good one, when licensing finally comes to Florida, FABI will be the model that the state will use for CEU's, and being on the inside can't hurt either. 
Joe,
See you at the Dec. seminar too? Hopefully get to meet you then.
