Originally Posted By: jmyers
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As everyone may know, “S” traps are illegal. Anyone out there know how plumbers fix these when found in the older homes with no vent stack?
Joe Myers
As everyone may know, “S” traps are illegal. Anyone out there know how plumbers fix these when found in the older homes with no vent stack?
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Ok,
So no one here has any idea at all how plumbers fix the illegal "S" trap! Come on people.
Can you answer this one? Is it ok to add an air gap to the drain pipe where the "S" trap is located?
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Joe,
I think that the s- traps don't get fixed until the bathroom is gutted and the dwv replaced. I'm sure a plumber would probably not even want to fix an existing s-trap. He would probably just look at it and say "Why bother fixing it if its been that way for 75 years"
I was in a 100 years old disaster this morning where there was a lead s-trap at the bathroom sink. Somebody cut into the top of the S and attached another lead pipe up through the roof. It was one of those situations that when you first look at it, ya just gotta laugh.
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Neal,
That would be a good laugh. I come across those occasionally. There in no better way to start a day than with a good laugh. 
I do know that plumbers fix them without actually installing a vent pipe through the roof, I was just curious if it would be acceptable to install an air gap which by all rights serves the same function as a vent stack.
I was pretty much looking for whether or not I was on track, or way off base on the air gap theory.
Thanks again.
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: Sean LaSalle
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If S traps are illegal, then why can you still buy them? I think you can replace an existing one, but can’t insall a new one. But I am probably wrong.
Sean
Anchor Home Inspections
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Sean,
"S" traps are illegal, plumbers are not supposed to install them although they can probably replace them.
"S" traps are notorious for allowing methane gas (sewer gas) into the house. What brought this thought on was, I was inspecting on of those houses that was allowing the gas back into the house. I often come across the situation where the "S" trap is rerouted to to a "T" and then an air gap installed on the top part of the "T". Since the air gap only allows the air flow into the pipe I just assumed this was an ok fix. Seemed like a pretty good fix to me! I was just wondering if any plumbers out there could give me a professional opinon on this situation and if it is not ok, how do you fix it.
Thanks for the reply.
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: Aaron Rosenbaum
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This message is probably a bit too late, but I have read about them (never used them yet in my plumbing) and its okay to do that. To take out a S trap and instead of going into the wall and making a new vent,etc, you can put a air vent on top of the T. The only bad thing is, they can go bad and need to replace. The only good place to put a air vent is where it is easily accessible…
Hope this helps....
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Aaron,
You see your youth is showing. Anyone that is around my age knows the only time it is too late is when, you were pushing and you should have been pulling! 
Maybe someone here can explain that one to you if you don't get it! 
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: Aaron Rosenbaum
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I don’t get it… I’m not that smart yet
Originally Posted By: rking
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Hello All,
Your plumbers down there have it easy!
In Ontario automatic air vents or air gaps as you guys call them are illegal!
An air gap here by terminology is an atmospheric breaker or such installed above the flood rim of a fixture such as a dishwasher or bidet.
--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: Aaron Rosenbaum
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Well, I’ve never used one, nor has the Master Plumber I work under.
Originally Posted By: janderson
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I think what you are referring to is an atmospheric vent. They are used in venting the waste plumbing for manufactured homes. However, in MN they are prohibited for use in stick built homes. Go figure
–
Within the seeds of ignorance lie the fruits of denial
Jeremiah
Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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So it seems there are a lot of different names for the same thing.
A valve (by whatever name) that allows air into the plumbing system to maintain trap seals instead of suctioning them dry is allowed in some places or types of homes and not allowed in other places or types of homes depending on where & when.
So the answer to Joe's basic question would be like:
1. It can be done physically. Devices exist to perform that function.
2. Legality in a particular AHJ is up to that AHJ. Some allow it. Some don't.
See this link for additional information.
http://www.studor.com/how.htm
Use a search engine for "air admittance valves" and you'll find enough to keep you reading all day.
--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com
Originally Posted By: rray
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| ecrofutt wrote: |
| you'll find enough to keep you reading all day. |
Uh. . . , Erby? Doesn't NACHI give us enough to keep us reading all day? 
--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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Yes, but on a variety of topics instead of just this one topic.
–
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com
Originally Posted By: Morgan Audetat
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I think it is important to remember that “s” traps no longer meet local or national codes but once did. They do not all allow sewer gas to enter the living space. In fact most work as intended.
They fall under "existing" plumbing and are exempt from replace per se.
Only in a remodel for sink replacement would one replace the "s" with a "p" and provide for ventilation by adding a vent to the atmosphere or a "Studor" or automatic venting device - now approved almost everywhere and infinitely better than nothing.
All the best,
MA
Originally Posted By: rking
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Morgan,
As I said earlier in this post, automatic air vents are not allowed period in Ontario. building inspectors go as far as to look for them if they cannot determine where the actual vent is being run and/or can find no exterior termination point of said vent.
I do not know the reason for this, but I am going to make a point of asking the next time I am at the building department.
--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: Morgan Audetat
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Sorry Robert, Canada is a whole other country! By the by, I think in future, vents will terminate in the attic…yet another thing to look for through the scuttle.
All the best,
MA
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Morgan,
Welcome back. And thank you for your wisdom. Do you mean they (the plumbing stacks) are going to terminate in the attic space? As in, not the exterior any more! 
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: Morgan Audetat
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Thanks Joe,
I have seen them in design and think they will be approved.
MA