Slab On Grade

Originally Posted By: mhenderson
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Hi all,


had a prospective customer call saying all he wanted was to have an inspection of a slab on grade. How would anyone here answer that one ? I had told him that the slab is virtually hidden & all I could do was look for signs & inspecting the whole slab would be difficult.He said he knew of an inspector that could and was really calling for an estimate.Am I missing something here or can you inspect a whole slab without tearing up the carpet or floor inside.Unless Superman started doing home inspections and x-ray vision is the norm is there another way to check for slabs or is this guy just blowing smoke icon_rolleyes.gif Someone throw me a bone here!


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Inspecting a slab on grade…


Well, what happened with inspecting the rest of the house?!! WAS there a house atop of this slab. Was the entire slab on grade, or did the property slope off and a partial foundation exposed. Was this slab foundation on footings? Was it wet soil? I guess I don't understand the request he made of you.

To me, this sounds like a set-up. Why would he only care about the slab unless he knew or suspected there was something wrong? The fact that he was calling for estimates is also perturbing. If ot was me, I'd tell him to contact a PE, structural engineer, and/or licensed architect.

The risk outways any possible inspection fee you could get, IMO. Listen to me... run, do not walk, run while you still can... It smells like either (1) a set-up looking for a fall-guy, or (2) a totally inept client who is asking for something other than the norm. In either case, you stand to lose.

Joe F.


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Joe F.


Hmmm.....yep that is a slab on a grade. Now how are you paying for this, check, cash, money order or credit card? icon_smile.gif

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: ismetaniuk
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This membership was a big waste of my time!



Igor


Top To Bottom Inspections


Glen Spey, NY

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Yup, it’s a slab alright…


Hey, sounds like your muffler bearing is loose, or is that just a faulty giggly-valve I hear when you start your car...

Lemme get my slab jack... I'll be right back. Oh, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. He's got a carton full of ferrets with tiny remote TV cameras taped to their heads to do the inspection...

Make that check out to Dr. Evil Home Inspections... Better yet, give the cash to Mini-Me...


Originally Posted By: csewell
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Come on guys! Be serious. I agree one should be wary of this type request, but realistically it can be done. There has to be something in writing signed by the client that will make it clear that the inspection is limited and no gaurantee of future performance due to not only knowing the slab was installated according to design, but a myriad of other future unknowns, such as proper drainage, etc. However, if I had gotten this request for an existing house on slab, I would have said, “Sure, I can check at least ten things so that I can form an opinion of whether the foundation has failed or not; but you can check many of them for yourself. Is there presently something about the slab that concerns you?” This would open the dialogue needed for determining whether it is a job you want to tackle or not.


I know what question is coming, but I will answer that after giving everyone time to think about it. By the way, I have never inspected a slab or a home, as I am just two weeks away from launching my semi-retirement business -- I am trained, licensed, well-read, and a humble mechanical engineer. SO TAKE ALL THE POT SHOTS YOU WISH!


--
Charles Sewell

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi all, I have to agree with Charles, firstly any contact with a prospective client has to be taken seriously, secondly most buyers (in all areas of endeavor) do not know what they want until the options of been explained to them, thirdly the inspector who takes the time to patiently explain the limitations of what has been asked will ultimately gain the respect of the client whether they do business on that particular property or not.


And yes I’m another rosy cheeked HI wannabe, who is obviously not yet cynical enough icon_lol.gif



Gerry Beaumont


NACHI Education Committee


e-mail : education@nachi.org


NACHI phone 484-429-5466


Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Has anyone ever heard the term “self-serving” or the term “legal but non-enforceable”?


Yes guys, a slab can be inspected. But you have to ask yourselves WHY would the client ONLY want the slab inspected and nothing else? This is a huge red flag in my eyes. No, I'm not cynical... I'm a realist. I'll assume that the client knows what he's asking for and knows that it's a bit off. He's admittedly calling around for "prices". That's the second red flag.

No doubt each inspector has the same thoughts running aroung their heads. No doubt someone before you asked why ONLY the slab. As to the "price", if you charge $350 for a whole house inspection, how much can a single component be worth? Half? A third? Okay, say its a third of $350. That makes the slab inspection worth about $116. This guy is still shopping? That's the third red flag.

So tell me, how would you inspect the slab? Let's assume the home has finished floors on the 1st floor. Walls, carpets, ceramic tile, mouldings... So what do you say. Ours is a visual inspection, I can tell you it's hard enough performing a true inspection for wood destroying insects on a slab home. Looking for flaws in the slab is gonna be impossible. Cracks that are there will most likely be visible, so why does this guy need an inspection?

Know what? No disclaimer in the world prevents you from being sued. The client has unrealistic expectations before the inspection has even started. This is where the term "self serving" comes into play. Put yourself into a situation where the client's reasonable expectations have not been met, and watch some judge hammer you. The reasonable expectation is a slab inspection. You accepted, knowing full well that there may be structural questions or conditions present you are not legally qualified to comment on. Therefore, you accept the risk. Your inspection agreement is comprimised because you strayed so far from the norm, as to put yourself at risk of being sued. And, for those newbie inspectors out there, kiss your E&O deductible goodbye. The carrier will NEVER litigate a claim like this. Chances are they they'll offer your deductible as "go away" money to the complaining party. In the end, you pay anyway.

So ask yourself: Did the $116 you charged this guy cover the (1) time you spent, (2) risk of beinbg sued, (3) cost of producing the report, (4) aggravation. I'll bet not.

Go back to the original premise. It stinks to high heaven. I still think it's a set-up...


Originally Posted By: mhenderson
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First of all guys, thanks for all your imput,I had turned this one away anyhow.This being only my 3rd year inspecting ,I have made some mistakes on customers expectations and try to convey to them that this is only a visual inspection, & the things I inspect are at the time of inspection


& NOT guarantees that they will last forever,I had a call back in from a client who felt his toilet pressure was not good enough…6 months after he had moved in…he replaced the toilet & tried to say it was defective for that lenght of time…1st he never notified me so I could evaluate his claim.& waited 6 months!!.next he replaced the so called defect without my evaluation…then he whined to the realtor…who called me… wanting to know what I was planning to do…Bottom line ,even tho I new it was`nt my fault, & according to my disclaimer he did not follow correct protocol, I split the cost to avoid the hassel with the realtor…who then called me back in deep appreciation…& I then had a talk with her too!!! She ended up splitting the cost with me…& every one was Happy icon_lol.gif Again thanks to everyone who replied!! Sharing your experiences …helps me become a better inspector!!


Mike H


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Well Ok,


You wanted my real opinion, I will give it now that we are all going to be serious.

I think the words "slab on grade" scared this fellow because he did not have any clue what they were talking about.

Further, whether it be arrogance or ignorance that stopped him from simply stating so really does not matter but it would have made life easier on everyone if he would have just said so.

I would have actually just explained it over the phone to him and saved him some $$$$. Most likely he would want the inspection performed anyway just because I made myself look honest and sincere, which I am.

The bottom line here is fear cost you. Just state the facts and let them decide for themselves what they want to do. Both will be much happier in the long run. icon_smile.gif

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Charles,


Charles are you a "good" humble engineer? Or just a humble engineer?

Sorry but I base all my pot shots on qualifications! icon_smile.gif


Anyway...Just kidding. Welcome to NACHI.

Joe Myers


Originally Posted By: csewell
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I’m good enough to know when I’m not good enough – that’s better than most I would say! I have enjoyed your posts and am learning a lot. I still haven’t started my inspection business, as my power plant consulting still has some life in it. I just recently retired from the big corporation world and have started my post-retirement work, completing training, testing, and licensing in the state of Texas as a Prof. R.I. The reason I responded to the original question was to learn more. I, like many in Texas, was deathly afraid of the idea of evaluating a foundation until I realized what some PI’s were doing is less than what I would deem adequate and they had been successful. So, I began to think about just what I could check to, in the state’s words, “render an opinion as to the performance of the foundation”. That’s a big problem in the Texas Gulf Coast area. I was hoping this forum would yield some additional thoughts to the ones I came up with, which were:


1. Does there appear to be an excessive number of larger than expected size cracks observed in the brick veneer walls or other siding of the house – There is no one standard for determining an excessive number of cracks; however, there are several organizations that offer guidelines for determining if the size of a crack in the siding is excessive – I will use what is called the BRAB #3 guideline (Building Research Advisory Board)
2. Does the top of the foundation (the floor) sloping appear to be excessive – one commonly used guideline is no more than 1 inch over a 20 ft span is acceptable, but opinions vary on this guideline as there is no one standard
3. Do any cracks observed in the interior walls at the corners of windows and doors appear to be excessive in size
4. Do cracks observed in the interior walls at the corners of a fireplace appear to be excessive in size
5. Are there windows that are very difficult to open, possibly due to movement caused by foundation
6. Are there long running or severe cracks observable in the interior floors
7. If an external masonry chimney or “wing walls” exist, are they showing signs of pulling away from the house structure
8. Are there doors, interior or front/side/rear entrance, that appear to be out of square or apparently won’t fit properly within their jambs, possibly due to foundation movement
9. Does there appear to be a visibly sagging, exterior ridge line when viewed from a distance
10. Do the rafters appear to be pulling away from (separating from) the ridge board
11. Does there appear to be signs of previous foundation repairs or siding repairs

By the way, I would pull out the water manometer tubing if I was suspicious of the levelness -- there are two very good instruments I have found that some folks use, but I plan to use the cheap tubing and have already put together a hose/reel assembly.

Nothing would please me more for someone to add to this list, so I could feel even more relaxed about rendering an opinion on foundations. I now feel reasonably good about slab inspections, but still antsy about septic system inspections (I have owned, cleaned, and maintained my systems for 30 years and had a couple replaced).

I really still feel un-qualified to inspect the rafter, joists, and support structure as these are often complicated systems not matching the standard code requirements of a joist across the entire structure connected to the ends of the rafters. However, I should be able to muddle along on this part of the inspection as well as most inspectors. I even posted a question on this last month but got little response.

Sorry about the lack of brevity!

Charles


--
Charles Sewell