something else to chew on

(john bubber) #1

-Radon gas and INSIDE drain tile-baseboard systems w/sumps

Let`s see, How does radon enter homes? #-o

http://radon.utoledo.edu/remedy_mech.html

2nd para " the major points of ENTRY are the cracks,joints and other penetrations. It is THESE openings in Walls that allow soil-gas to enter the building"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/health/radon.html

How does radon get into my home? #-o

"Is your house airtight? Very few are,especially older homes-and especially if the foundation or any of the walls are built with concrete BLOCKS, which are Particularly Porous to radon....."

And so, INSIDE Co`s who only/rather install Inside drain tile/baseboard systems w/sumps also drill HOLES in hollow-block walls, oh yes, indeed they do. They do not seal/waterproof cracks/other Outside openings-crevices and have been drilling holes in YOUR block walls. Plus, they also leave openings/GAPS at wall-floor joint, yeah the cold joint, cove, yes they do.

Now, what can enter through hollow-block walls and openings in floors?
Yer darn skippy.

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/physic.html#Character

lets make sure! How does radon enter?

"radon gas can enter a home from the SOIL THROUGH cracks in floors and walls, floor drains, sump pumps, construction joints and tiny cracks or pores in hollow-block walls"

a) cracks in concrete slabs
b) spaces behind brick veneer walls that rest on uncapped hollow brick foundation
c) pores and cracks in concrete blocks
d) floor-wall joints
e) exposed soil, as in a sump
f) weeping drain tile, if drained to open sump
g) mortar joints etc.....

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(john bubber) #2

yeah, i know i know, i missed some of you too:mrgreen:

ok, so now we have Inside drain tile and baseboard systems with sumps that dont appear to help stop/prevent radon entry. If anything, sure seems it may allow EASIER access for radon gas to enter, if you cant figure that out then your more than a couple sandwiches short of a picnic.

It`s these same dang openings/pathways/cracks etc that......](*,) allow WATER to ENTER Most basements which can also cause....mold.

Same openings that allow easy access for our creepy-crawler friends like termites,ants,spiders, centipedes etc.

But noooooooo, somehow.....some seem to think it all has to do with raising-sloping the grade, extending the downspouts, splash blocks for krist sake:|.)

Hey, will some of yas try using your brain a tad more when it comes to how water, yeah rain, percolates through soil. Jesus, just because someone raisesn slopes the grade does not mean all water will be diverted away from the entire basement walls, think!:mrgreen:

There is NO Underground slope, NO Underground bias, hello?

Let me ask, just where in the world do YOU think the water goes that may be diverted several feet away from a house? Huh? #-o

Do you really think diverting some SURFACE water keeps all water away from entire depth of foundation walls?

Why do some recommend sealing/patching cracks in driveways and NOT in basement walls?

Why do some recommend fixing a handrail but not fixing/repairing a crack in a basement wall?

I bet-hope most recommend to repair a leaky roof :mrgreen: but NOT a crack in basement wall, no, just raise the grade `n extend the downspouts huh,lol.

And some cry and wonder why they get sued, shtt, im posting to help, to inform, to wake some of yer butts up, but some dont like my approach, i say tough crap.

I wonder how many of you who inspect basement walls and give recommendations to homeowners truly understand that, MANY hollow block walls can look fine on Inside of basement, have NO visible cracks on Inside and, on OUTSIDE of these SAME walls, have cracks which is what is allowing water to enter into the hollow block and eventually onto the basement floor at/near cold joint-cove. Got milk?

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(john bubber) #3

Ooopsie

http://wwmt.com/engine.pl?station=wwmt&id=25979&template=breakout_local.html

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/9240758/detail.html?rss=col&psp=news

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(john bubber) #4

http://www.waterproofyourhome.com/faq.htm

...2nd Q `n A...are you going to dig up my house?

No, our work is done from inside the basement. When you dig up the house youre just redoing the same process that already failed. Odds are high that the problem will occur again in a few years. Its the biggest mess and most expensive means of correction and in most cases has no warranty. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

They go on to say trapping water inside blocks can cause....deterioration of the block and increase the chance of mold, THIS IS true!

First, most basement walls new or old are NOT Waterproofed and are NOT backfilled with peastone. They are at best parged/damproofed and backfilled with soil that was excavated from site. Backfilling w/site soil can cause walls to crack,bow due to the soil compacting `n then exerting pressure against walls. Then down the road a tad, soils can expand & contract which can also cause walls to crack/leak.

http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp 6th,7th para`s

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

"there is a significant DIFFERENCE between damproofing and waterproofing" (and yes,backfilling)

So, many Inside Cos do not stop/prevent water from entering which can cause mold,deterioration of block due to water STILL entering, they dont help lessen Outside lateral n hydrostatic soil pressure or tree roots which can also crack/push against walls, cause cracks/leaks etc. They dont help stop RADON from entering, efflorescence,termites etc.

They say Outside is messy and EXPENSIVE? lolol What a crock o shtt, misleading and simply NOT true.

Many homeowners have 1 or 2 areas/cracks-walls, this is all they need to fix, this is why water is entering. So its going to cost LESS to actually stop/prevent water from entering on the Outside than an Inside drain tile/baseboard system & sump. LESS, Not more expensive!

And NO warranty? W H A T??????? says who? Them? hahahhaaaa

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(Roy D. Cooke, Sr) #5

Good Info thanks John

Roy Cooke sr ... Royshomeinspection.com

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(john bubber) #6

it`s the truth, thanks

earlier link http://www.waterproofyourhome.com/faq.htm

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(wtrprfr1) #7

Nicely done!
www.integritywaterproofing.com

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(john bubber) #8

wtrpr,

http://www.integritywaterproofing.com/wst_page5.html

myself and several others here in Michigan agree with you. i mean lic/ins/honest contractors who have been in business for 25++ years and have always had a clean-no complaints BBB record, unlike many INSIDE 'only' companies, many of whom have 10,20,50,70+ BBB Complaints in.....the LAST
36 Months! ;-)

now, thats a good bullchtt story they tell! Your right on about those Salespeople who have NO-zero-nada hands on Experience and knowledge, other than how to BS homeowners, they are Very good at that! I weep for the homeowners who take their con-game as fact.

Yeah, your right on about these Inside Cos supposed lifetime guranatees too.:mrgreen: They do NOT cover ANY futher-future wall movement,cracks,leaks Through basement walls,MOLD-efflorescence-damp spots etc on basement walls. The MAIN reason some of these Inside creeps install/place a sheeting against the basement wall(s) is to....Hide-conceal what i just mentioned, thats right. They dont want homeowners to SEE the wall,part of wall, continue to maybe bow in, re-crack or see mold etc. Why cant homeowners see-through the BS!! Think folks. Their warranty in MOST cases ONLY covers water/seepage in that 18"-24" perimeter area! Doesnt cover the whole dang floor which, is NOT most homeowners problem(s) anyways! god, it pizzes me off.

People are spending their cash almost-always on these Inside bs systems that doesnt stop water from ENTERING, wont help stop/prevent mold,efflorescence,further cracking-bowing due to OUTSIDE Soil pressure n tree roots, wont help stop any of our lil insect friends from entering through the same cracks/openings on the Outside AND, Inside systems do NOT help stop/prevent Radon gas entry! If anything, they and their systems allow EASIER access. Inside drain tile or baseboard systems are needed about 10% of the time, thats it!

With all the MONEY some of these Inside Cos spend on Tv/radio/BIG yellow Pg ads,newspaper ads, and seems like hundreds of internet ads, they give themselves a huge opportunity to.....BS people even more. Then you toss in some radio home improvement hosts who are on 100+ radios stations throughout the country and the BS story gets Biggern bigger. In TIME, THEY get people thinking its the truth, best system etc. Did i say this shtt pizzes me off yet? :mrgreen:

Member that good lookinsweety Sheena Easton? She had a song that went something like "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink....you can give a man your whole heartn soul but you cannot make him THINK"

Sorry, popped in head :roll:

Ok, back to your page 5, yeah.....the installers. They make very little and MOST have very little if any experience at all. And the Inside Co/owners will try `n tell ya they are 'trained'....yeah, trained at what? Installing inside systems? Thats ALL they are told, thats what they learn. they dunno diddley about the things that matter, the facts-the real reasons MOST basements leak. So who gets most of the cash? You know who. By the way, MANY of these Inside Co 'owners' have crap for brains when it comes to basement waterproofing, yer darn tooting.

lateral `n hydrostatic soil pressure, tree roots, what kind of problems occur?

6th, 7th para http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

http://www.al-home-inspections.com/news-articles/article-4.html

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html

scroll down to --Trees and Your Foundation--

http://landmarksociety.org/section.html?id=1&uid=1&pageId=7

"Strong foundations are sometimes damaged by small roots that entered tiny cracks, then GREW and EXPANDED the Crack. Large roots can push bulges into the foundation WALL"

Lets think about just how the heck ANY Inside System can possibly remove any roots off the Outside of any basement wall, huh? They can`t, gotta go....ahem, Outside to accomplsih this. Same goes for removing any Outside soil pressure!

http://www.shakeronline.com/dept/building/FAQ.asp ....scroll down to Wet Basements

Q1) are sump pump systems allowed....?
"Yes, although this is NOT the approach we recommend. Its not waterproofing, its water management........this approach does not eliminate mold,mildew etc...."

Yeah, and it doesnt help stop/prevent radon gas either. Its estimated to cause about 21,000 lung cancer deaths per year, yeah...more than drunk drivers/home fires etc.

Q6) what if the problem is not related to surface grading(pfft) and.....water is leaking through the foundation?
"The Preferred method for dealing with damp and leaking basements is to dig around the perimeter of foundation (only where needed,where leak is) all the way DOWN to Footing.......thats waterproofing done right".

yes it is, but all peastone backfill is BEST!

http://www.stocorp.com/pr.nsf/5d5efb09f77373618525666a004bca57/d4f316cb97c674368525692d006d00ea?OpenDocument

scroll to..... --Federal Response--

" I would say 90% of the moisture problems in houses are related to moisture coming IN from the OUTSIDE"

Some of us have been busting our butts 25+ years and trying to explain this but according to many of our Inside systems friends, they try n tell ya buncha crap inclg most problems are from under the floor/footing etc, they make ridiculous claims like "Oh, outside method is Very expensive,messy,little or no warranty, outside was already done and it didnt work then & wont work now" etc....yeah, they talk alot of shtt! Pizzes me off, did i say that yet?

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=130735

Now, check it out, please read 4th paragraph

THEY say...."a crack is NOT due to improper building practices or other construction related activety"

It isnt huh? hahaha, shtt wake up will ya please. So, cracks are NOT related to some builders cutting corners like not compacting soil on site,thinner-shallower footings, NOT related to no use of steel reinforcing rod in walls huh, NOT related to poor backfilling practices like pushing tons of heavy soil against new wall(s) w/heavy equipment or with no floor in placen others. NOT related to using heavy equipment to close to basement walls, yeah, that can certainly cause a basement wall to CRACK, the weight of heavy equipment alone causes an Underground surcharge pressure that is transferred to the bsmt wall. Shht, to some of us, damproofing is an improper building practice and so is not backfilling with most--all peastone. Is this really an EXPERT? The experts i know understand at least this much, got milk?

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/wetbasements

scroll to A WARNING.............

"....these evaluations are usually conducted by salespeople with minimal technical training and often the only solution they sell is the drain & sump system. It is not a surprise then, that they arrive at the conclusion that the drain `n sump system is the best solution for you 99% of the time"

3rd para..." another common problem with waterproofing companies, espec in the Wash area, is price gouging (its not just there)......several well established firms in this market are believed to CONSPIRE to Fix Prices.Allegedly, in some cases, two so-called competitors may in fact be two branches of the same operation.Waterproofing is the one home service field in this area where a Significant chunk of the market is held by Completely UNSCRUPULOUS firms. Be careful, dont let the firms size fool you"

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(wtrprfr1) #9

Keep up the good fight. Your post taught me more about waterproofing than I learned in 8 years working for the company that spawned all these interior drain companies.

www.integritywaterproofing.com

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(john bubber) #10

wtrprf,

thanks, and thanks for your honesty. takes a real man to say that and want to learn/understand the truth to....help homeowners make the best/correct choice when it comes to waterproofing/foundation work. ;-)

on your website, its nice to FINALLY see one contractor who does inside systems who clearly identifies what an Interior system does, controls/manages most-all water that ENTERS from outside 90% of the time, Under the floor. It doesn`t stop/prevent water from entering outside penetrations,mold,radon,soil pressure etc. People sorely need MORE contractors like you and, your in Ohio? lol Yes, many there and throughout midwest & east sure need HONEST answers.

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(Marcel R. Cyr, CMI) #11

Why do I feel like I am getting flashbacks of a dream maybe.???

Marcel :) :)

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(john bubber) #12

:|.) Marcel

...back ta work

Got milk? Got mold :?:

http://www.des.state.nh.us/pdf/MOLD_in_Homes_Web.pdf

'Molds can grow on many substances where, AHEM, moisture is present'

....i would hope most would agree with DAT :roll:

How do i tell if i have a mold problem in my home?

"....look for signs of excess moisture or water damage....sometimes
destructive techniques may be needed to inspect and clean enclosed
spaces where mold and moisture are hidden,example, opening up a
wall cavity"

-Clean Up and Removal-

The most important step in SOLVING a mold problem is to identify and
correct the moisture sources that Allowed the growth in the first place.
flooding, condensation, movement through basement walls and slab etc

So Inside drain tile and Baseboard systems w/sumps do NOT stop
water entering through cracks & other openings in basement walls!
They should keep most water that WILL continue to ENTER, off most of
the basement floor. To continue to allow water to enter through a hollow
block wall can, deteriorate the wall. Just another reason Inside companies
want to install/place a partial or full sheeting against the basement wall.

What about the humidity increase in basement huh? Eh, hollow-block
basement walls can HOLD water, water can get locked up INSIDE the
hollow blocks, oh yes it can. Water is still entering through cracks and
other outside penetrations,that sheeting sure comes in handy for
Inside companies :ouch: And when THEY drill holes in the BOTTOM course of block wall
it does not mean all water will be drained out of the blocks ABOVE, bs, doesn`t
work that way. Yeah, in theory it sounds good but is NOT always
the case. We have seen water locked up in block walls, in the cells/cavities,2',3'-5' high
when an Inside system was already done and holes had been drilled in bottom course.

Yeah, to hide further wall movement/deterioration and to conceal those
wet/damp spots on basement wall along with mold,efflorescence. Yeah,
that 'Bright wall sheeting' can sure hide lots or problems huh :mrgreen:

They dont cover further/future wall movement on those lifetime-
guarantees do they, no! They don
t cover wet/damp spots n any
further discoloration on basement walls do they, no! And just because
they installed an Inside drain tile or baseboard system does NOT mean
they guarantee any water coming up through the rest of the basement
floor. Most ONLY cover the AREA where they worked, that 18"-24" along
the inside perimeter, it
s best to read that small print on their supposed
Lifetime warranty of structure, yeah.

Insects seem to enjoy damp/wet conditions too, just what your wife
was hoping for. Well, Inside systems most often will give you that.

http://www.shakeronline.com/dept/building/FAQ.asp

Scroll down to....Wet Basements
question 1 and 5

Http://www.ottawastructural.com/treesfoundations.htm

Can any Inside System relieve Outside problems?:-k Well, can they? Not

http://www.ottawastructural.com/About%20your%20house,%20Structural%20Issues.pdf

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(Marcel R. Cyr, CMI) #13

Thanks for the information.

Marcel :) :)

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(john bubber) #14

hehehe Welcome to our neighborhood

http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=142150

let`s see, they say they are foundation repair specialists

they say their repair method is cost effective,clean and....permanent

as Lee Corso says, not so fast my friend :mrgreen:

Injections of poured wall cracks are Not...permanent, thats right, not all injections are permanent due to further SOIL pressure on the outside of the basement wall which in many cases caused the dang crack to begin with. And tree roots, yeah, they can also cause cracks in basement walls and push against walls.

This is why about 50% of all injections will....fail, the crack will widen/pop open and....leak again. Permanent? someone who claims to be a foundation repair expert should know this and explain this to homeowners, that is if they really give a shtt. Fact is, those who only do injections either dont know or, arent going to inform the homeowner of this, yeah...self interest.

hey BBB-for consumer information, not for sales or promotional purposes

http://www.stlouis.bbb.org/commonreport.html?compid=310001164

seems somes consumers would agree not all injections are...permanent.

here is another company that apparently does injections, what do they say?

http://www.suredrybasements.com/sureDryCrackRepair.html

"...we have had to watch as continued structural movement and further concrete shrinkage have re-opened cracks to LEAK....injection alone CANNOT provide a Lasting-Solution as cracks get LARGER and soil expansion and contraction cause the foundation to shift and settle"

Got Milk? ;-)

Only way to help lessen/relieve lateral `n hydrostatic soil pressure & tree roots is from the.....outside, NOT inside.

http://www.prwebdirect.com/releases/2005/5/prweb235141.php

3rd para....they say " a cracked foundation is not due to improper building practices or other construction related activety" ](*,) it isn`t huh?

Oh...and the 'thousands of dollars bit'....they apparently charge $500-600 for their injection of one crack which takes about 1 hour. Hey...to repair most cracks in poured walls from outside is not in thousands but rather $775-950. Depends on depth to footing etc and takes about 4 hours. It costs 'a lil more' because....we haul the soil away, backfill w/peastone etc! Geeez....the labor to hand dig is a TON more difficult versus a one hour injection! C`mon, lets get ALL the facts out there, not this one sided-partial bs.

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(rrichards2) #15

Foundation sealing from the outside (when practical and cost effective) is always my first choice. Thanks for the info John.

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(john bubber) #16

Roy is smarter than the average bear

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(john bubber) #17

Buncha glue-sniffing farts, yeah, Everdry and several others

Over n over, homeowners gettin estimates for shtt they dont need and, last couple estimates ive run Everdry had already given estimate.

Homeowners in Detroit and Eastpointe were told they needed entire Inside perimeter done, costs from Everdry for their Inside Multi-step was over $17,000. They also told homeowners and wrote down that an exterior method would cost over $20,000 and other over $26,000. lololol

Somebody is on several drugs or most likely, is simply trying to stick the old carrot deep

These are some of the same folks who try n explain to you that an exterior method is very expensive, very disruptive, doesnt work, was already done when home was built and a bunch of other crap. Can`t believe so many homeowners bend over for this misleading,untrue sales bs. Wake up will ya please :mrgreen: Homeowners hiring many Inside companies who have 10, 20, 40++ Better Business Bureau customer complaints over the Last 36 MONTHS, versus many Exterior contractors who have 0 BBB customer complaints over 25,30 Years, total-ever.

These 2 homeowners have CRACKS....yes, cracks on the Outside of hollow-block basement walls, 2 walls. They have mold `n efflorescence on the inside of these 2 walls.....water coming out onto the floor at the cold joint, cove, due to....WATER that enters into the hollow block through the Cracks! lol

How could anyone deduce that any kind of work inside the basement, any Inside system, can possibly stop/prevent water from entering on the Outside? Wheres the common sense? A Drain tile or baseboard system w/sump and, Running a dehumidifier is NOT going to stop water from entering the dang basement. Its Not going to stop prevent mold etc, gotta stop the water from entering to accomplish this fer pete sakes.

And one lady has a dang tree 2' away from the basement wall, geez, ya think this could possibly have anything to do with cracks in the wall `n bowing in? How ya figure do an inside system and leaving the roots and clay on the outside of the basement is going to help?

Then there are those pushing/bsg helical piers on homeowners, telling many homeowners who have walls that are cracked/bowing in that it is due to problems under the floor that can only be helped by installing these piers, more Nonsense! Fact is, just about always bowing walls are due to outside lateraln hydrostatic pressure and/or roots from trees.

scroll down to 'Hydrostatic Pressure' and observe retaining wall

http://www.ohiominesubsidence.com/Definitions.aspx

Now, how ya figure helical piers will help, huh? :mrgreen: Got Milk?

R Dean Taylor....red lights are flashing around me, yeah, love, it looks like they found me, Indiana wants me, Lord i can`t go back there

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(john bubber) #18

Over n overn over n over.....just did job for Lady in Detroit where Everdryn others recommended and told her she needed an Inside system to solve her leaky basement and moldy basement walls. Don`t forget, they wanted over $17,000, thats right :mrgreen: for their Inside Mutli step method.

Problems were, cracks on Outside of hollow-block wall in every area where she got water inside... on floor along cove/cold joint AND, openings in brick ledge just below grade AND, caulking & tuckpointing needs Above ground.

The back wall had water trapped/locked inside cells of hollow blocks due to, yup :mrgreen: ....cracks n other outside openings. Water gushed out of EACH block like turning on a spigot. Care to CALL her yourself? Thats right,dont believe me then ask her.

Now, just how could ANY Inside drain tile or baseboard method w/sump and dehumidifier SOLVE these Outside problems? lololol, NO way Jose.

And so, these so-called experts yet again recommended an Inside system which could NOT have stopped/prevented further water from entering the dang wall. Oh, i dont want to forget this one either:mrgreen: ....raising & sloping the dumb grade away and extending downspouts etc did NOT and cannot keep water from entering these cracksn Other outside openings.

Hmmm, over $17,000 for Inside system which does not stop water from entering versus, $3,625 to STOP it. yeah...buncha crooks out there and its NOT most of the Outside contractors. QUIT w/ the shtt we too often hear inclg "Oh, an Exterior method is very Expensive"....etc. And Glen H, $200-300 per foot?????? I though you had all the....clearn concise information? BSHT!

One more thing dammmitttt:roll: , IF she wanted....to do the ENTIRE outside would have been $8,500 ish. Yeah, 1/2 of what the media inside darlings want. Other areas do not leak as of this time soooooooo, fix whats broke! Problem area-crack occurs in future then, fix THAT area! Grrr Got Milk?

The Floyd......"i gotta lil black book with my poems in, got a bag, got a toothbrush and a comb, when i`m a good dog they sometimes throw me a bone"

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(john bubber) #19

http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=9360&start=250

Kevin`s Dec 28 post about BBB waterproofing-alert article, hope you are well Kevin.

notice supposed-alert is.... no more:mrgreen:

This 'alert' was posted on BBB website, supposedly was there to help/guide homeowners on what is best waterproofing method, inside or outside. Had several one-sided statements in it inlc`g.... "Exterior is very expensive"..etc.

Now, IF THAT article was all facts, was all about the TRUTH then, what happened to the article, huh? Got milk?

D Matthews....waste the hours with talking, talking, these TWISTED games we`re playing.....the space between, our wicked lies is where we hope to keep safe from pain

Freddie & Queen....its so easy, but i cant do it, so risky but i gotta chance it, its so funny theres nothing to laugh about, my money...thats all you wanna talk about, i can see what you want me to be, but im no fool.....its in the Lap of the Gods

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(john bubber) #20

time to be held accountable-liable:mrgreen:

Some HI`s, realtors like to recommend leaky basement fixes-remedies, yeah you know, raise the grade-longer downspout extensions etc. These concrete leveling/mudjacking companies too.

oK, FINE, THATS JUST FINE:mrgreen: but....since you think you have the correct fixes, 90% of the time as many of YOU say, and tell homeowners this crap then WHY don`t YOU start putting it in writing?

Nah, ya wouldnt do that would ya? lolol

For instance, mudjacking Cos who tell homeowners that if they raise a slab(s) itll stop/solve leaky basement problem should back it up, dammmittt.

When did they become a foundation/waterproofing expert?

Quit talking and start backing up what you say/recommend.

If not, then maybe you should recommend an expert take a peek at problem instead of this bs/crap/MYTHS!

Who PAYS for these supposed correct fixes when they dont work, huh? Tired of this crap ](*,) have a nice day

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