Veterans have nothing to prove. There Verification is that the United States of America is still here. This thread is an insult to all and should be deleted.
I agree with Henry, this thread is out of line. Nothing but a tool to take cheap shots at someone under false pretenses. No one has to prove anything or answer to anyone else at Nachi.
I guess the ethics people and my ethics are in disagreement. Since i go by my ethics. i will not associate with a group that insults veterans I will terminate my nachi membership now. nachi logos will be removed from my web sites and vehicles in the morning.
Who cares what he has. I respect and salute anybody that has served the U.S. I am proud of you all.
John Bowman’s credentials are 100% legitimate and real. I won’t explain how I know. Take my word for what it is worth to you.
Be sure to tell Bushart that Nick:D
Henry,
As a Canadian, and reviewing the original post and reading through the rest of it, you are right. Its an insult and in bad taste. I further agree the noble thing to do is have the thread deleted.
Hank -
I hope you choose to stay, you are a valuable resource to NACHI, and I’d like to think that one individual is not strong enough to run you off. We can only continue to grow stronger and better by staying and fighting.
– bz
No group has insulted veterans, certainly NACHI hasn’t. How is his membership in NACHI or NACHI involved? I think I’m missing something. My comment (post #25) was made by me personally. Why would someone quit NACHI over it. I’m just saying what I know to be true. Don’t believe me if you don’t want to. I couldn’t care less.
Nick -
I think Hank posted a request on the Ethics forum asking to have this thread deleted. I assume his request was denied and thus he is making a stand.
I personally believe it’s the wrong stand, and I hope he changes his mind as we need more like him, not less.
– bz
Nick,
I read hanks thread in the ethic post. He was unhappy that his request to have this post remove. By not having it not removed, he feels that Nachi in some way or the other is allowing this type of behavior. As a service man my self, I to take offense to James attack not only on John, but on the rest of US also. Hang in there Hank, you are a far better man than James when the roll call is called in my book.
I apologize to no one for my post.
As the recipient of a variety of military awards and medals myself, I read where people all over the country are pretending not only to be vets, but decorated vets as well – and am offended. A recent presidential candidate was called to task for overstating his bravery and contributions regarding his service in Southeast Asia. Theft of valor is not new and is an abomination to all who served honorably — regardless of their accumulation of decorations.
It’s like Woodstock where, in 1969, 500,000 kids went to hear the concert and in 2007, there are over 4 million baby boomers who claim to have been there.
How many draft dodgers are returning to the USA from Canada with a box full of “medals”, I wonder.
At any rate, all veterans claiming military honors are readily able to provide the documentation supporting the awards. Those of us with them know of the written citations that accompany them and the permanent record of them on our DD 214s.
I did not publicly claim that any one in particular has actually misrepresented his military decorations because I do not know this to be a fact. I only know that a particular person has, in the past, offered to provide proof of his entitlement to them when challenged…and then failed to do so. He provided controversial statements regarding his possible connection to Special Forces that, when contacted, officials presently handling the records of former members of Special Forces were unable to validate as well.
It is his right, unless asked by the FBI who investigates complaints of this nature, to refuse anyone’s request for substantiation, but those of us who are proud of our medals and honors are equally as proud of the citations and proof. Especially during times like these when phony military chaplains are conducting funerals and phony U.S. Marine E-9s are making speeches at civic gatherings.
As to those who are indignant and insulted by the idea of providing evidence for entitlement to a medal or award, I find this absurd. When I was on active duty, I attended the ATC NCO Academy and as an active duty Air Force sergeant — was required to report in full dress uniform with proper validation for every medal on my uniform. Sergeants showing up for this academy who lacked the proper validation were not allowed to wear the ribbons associated with the medals they could not validate.
Air Force personnel reporting to any major training base … to become drill instructors and recruiters … were also required to provide evidence of their entitlements to the medals and decorations they wore, and were required to remove from their uniforms any that they could not validate.
This also became a practice at several installations for newly assigned personnel in the early 1980s.
Actual recipients of medals and awards are not strangers to the process of providing evidence of their entitlement to them and are not offended by it, but are offended by the reason that such validation is necessary.
Again… please be clear that no apology accompanies this explanation for this or any previous post.
Jim, once again you seem to have wone the “NACHI A** of the Year Award”.
Maybe NACHI members will "validate’ that for you.
Ooops, sorry. I thought when I read
that he was talking about NACHI. My bad. I misunderstood. So as long as it doesn’t involve NACHI in any way, I really should stay out of it.
Anyway, NACHI would never insult veterans. NACHI is run more by military veterans than any other association I know of. For example: my Denver chapter is nearly all ex military including Jim Michael (the President) who had completed his 20th year by age 37. We have at least 20 other chapter heads like him run by ex military (maybe more), at least 6 war heros that I know of in NACHI, and 1 Frank Carrio. That says it all.
My late father-in-law was in Patton’s army in WWII. He was there when Americans re-took Paris, only to be told to back out and let French forces re-take it on film. When those forces were beaten back by a re-inforced German army, the Americans had to fight the battle a 2nd time (with heavy losses), and remain hidden behind the scenes, securing the city, so that the staged triumphant return of the French forces were recorded for prosperity.
My father-in-law saw many horrors, most of which he would never speak. He was also blown out of what was once referred to as a half-track. His unit was ahead of Patton’s advancing army. He lost about half his foot, had both legs filled with shrapnel, had his ankle fused, and spent the next two years re-learning to walk.
Prior to this service ending/life altering wound, he was awarded the Bronze Star for single-handedly knocking out a German machine gun nest with a grenade, just like something you’d see in a movie. This particular feat was recorded in a book. He was awarded several other miscellaneous medals, including a Purple Heart with two clusters. My father-in-law was a good man. He was compelled to sign a paper while recovering in a hospital, guaranteening that his disability benefit would never be challenged. The problem in signing the document was that he was also barred from ever seeking a higher disability payment from the government. So much for the notion of signing under duress.
My father trained medics for the war. Though he voluntered to go, his stint was stateside in the medical profession.
My Uncle Sol was a radio operator in the Merchant Marines during WWII. He saw action, and taught me Morse Code. His nickname was “Sparks” while serving.
My Uncles John, Mickey, and Tony were ship builders in the Brooklyn Navy Yards. My Aunt Sis helped assemble torpedoes.
My Uncle Pat was an officer in the Army during the War.
My ex-Brother-in-law was a Paratrooper and was stationed in Korea. He was called back from leave, put on a plane, and was on his way to Cuba during what would become to be known as the Cuban Missile Crisis. No one really knows how close we were to going to war.
My cousin John served in the navy in Vietnam on the USS Oklahoma City.
My brother did not serve, but runs several VA medical centers in the NY metro region. He has served military folks for 35 years.
Dont talk to me about honor and valor, or this mumbo jumbo about being insulted by one ex-military person questioning the claimed service record of another.
This pissing contect started way back when one Frank Carrio was accused of lying by another NACHI member over Frank’s claim at being a Green Beret during Vietnam. It turns out that Mr. Carrio was, indeed, a Green Beret. A supposed location called “Stumpneck” was the start of it all.
Henry, regardless of anything you may believe, Jim’s post was in no way a slap at any current or ex-armed forces member. To the contrary, I believe Jim is pretty steamed over the entire matter.
I have no dog in this hunt one way or another. But, if one person claims something militarily that bever happened, it IS a slap in the face to every person who ever served, and to their families.
Our bretheren to the Great White North (Canada) need also honor their veterans. Together, we comprise North America, and shall remain friends and allies, I hope, for all times.
Veterans Day is my youngest son’s birthday. Aside from the fact that he gets his birthday off every year, there is no parade or true recognition beyond lip service for the veterans in my town.
Everyone seems to show up by the thousands for the St. Patty’s day parade though, while most veterans are thought of in passing.
It’s more than a shame, IMO.
It’s a f*cking disgrace.
No one respects our vets more than I do.
Remember our veterans this November 11th.
All of them.
James,
As you stated it your last post, I stand corrected and I WILL stand behind you on the facts of your last post. Hank, stand strong and stand firm with Nachi… You will find no better org any where. I my self have called out some people in my neighborhood who have claimed military duty, even wearing dress uniform to boot. James, I know you mean well with your post, but please choose you postings and words well before you post.
Well said thanks Will…Cookie
Talk about disrespect for veterans, that lunatic church in Kansas takes the cake by protesting at vets funerals, they are not Christians but lunatics. They are an insult to God, country and decent people everywhere. It is nothing but another one of Satan’s ploys to discredit the Kingdom of God, only his followers could go so low! Rest assured they will get theirs. They better not come within arms length of me. :mad:
Kenneth, the only good thing that has come out of that lunatics (my apologies to lunatics everywhere) actions is the formation and growth of the patriot guards, www.patriotguard.org; an outstanding organization of which I am proud to be a member.
ABC News: The Blotter
**FBI on the Lookout for Phony Heroes This Memorial Day Weekend**
May 25, 2007 10:24 AM
Vic Walter Reports:
[http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/images/2007/05/25/fbi_on_the_look_mn_2.jpg](http://blogs.abcnews.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/25/fbi_on_the_look_mn_2.jpg) FBI agents and veterans will be on the lookout this Memorial Day weekend for phony military heroes, a disquieting trend that officials say has grown substantially in the years of the war with Iraq.
“I probably get three to five calls a day about someone spotted with suspicious decorations,” said Doug Sterner, who passes along the tips to veterans groups and the FBI.
Sterner operates the Web site Home of Heroes, which is dedicated to honoring true military heroes.
Photos: Phony Military Heroes: Medals of Dishonor](javascript:openPopup(‘http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/popup?id=3210247’, ‘popup’, 742, 610)
“I’ll be damned if I sit idly by while some wannabe phony wears awards that real heroes gave their lives for,” Sterner said.
Among the most recent examples is Louis Lowell McGuinn of New York City.
He claimed to be a lieutenant colonel in the United States Army, often appearing at military events wearing an impressive array of decorations, including a Purple Heart, Silver Star and the Distinguished Service Cross.
But law enforcement officials say it was a ruse and that McGuinn was discharged from the Army in 1968 as a private, with none of the decorations he claimed.
Last month, FBI agents arrested McGuinn and charged him with wearing unearned medals and badges in violation of federal law. They say he posed as a highly decorated military officer in order to get a job with an underwater marine security company.
McGuinn pleaded not guilty and was released on $5,000 bail with his travel restricted. When contacted by ABC News, he declined to comment on the case.
The FBI and veterans groups say there are more and more decorated phonies turning up every day, and when they are caught, the punishment varies.
In one recent case in St. Louis, businessman Gerald Weilbacher received only two years probation and a $3,000 fine after pleading guilty to federal charges of wearing Marine Corps medals he did not earn, including the Navy Cross, the Corps’ second highest medal.
The 400-pound Weilbacher never served in the Marines and was spotted at one Marine Corps veterans event as a phony because “he was too fat to be a Marine,” according to one veteran.
In contrast, Michael Bramlett of Springfield, Mo., was sentenced to six months in federal prison without parole for claiming to be a Marine Captain and wearing unauthorized medals that included a Silver Star, Navy Cross and a Purple Heart for combat in Iraq.
At his sentencing on April 3, U.S. Attorney Bradley Schlozman said, “This impostor received the maximum penalty for his dishonorable conduct. Such disrespect for the brave men and women serving in our nation’s forces won’t be tolerated.”
FBI Agent Michael Sandborn works to track down and expose phony military heroes.
“In cemeteries overseas, there are 124,913 Americans who paid for their Purple Hearts with their lives, and these impostors purchase theirs over the Internet and at surplus stores,” he told ABC News.
Recent passage of the Stolen Valor Act now makes any misrepresentation of military decorations punishable by up to a year in jail.
Watchdogs like Doug Sterner think that even with the tougher law, military phonies will still be out there tarnishing the image of the true military heroes.
Sterner says, “It’s so prevalent that you’re never going to catch and prosecute all of them.”