This is to forewarn anyone having recieved notification from OAHI with regard to imposed fines or imposition of any form of penalty without having had the benefit of a hearing as stated in the by-laws not to submit remittance of any fine(s) without seeking legal advice from your lawyer. Any fines collected in such a manner are without merit and not collectible nor legal. Such fines currently cannot be accounted for because OAHI at this point in time has not released as required their financial statements for the final quarter of 2005, the year end, and the first and second quarter of 2006. Nor any minutes from the BOD meetings. Without this information there is no accountability or assurance monies have been collected and accounted for properly.
Sounds like they are running like a well OILED machine.
I suggest you send a Registered Letter to Mr. Ron Segal OAHI’s solicitor, I also suggest you send an email and regular letter mail notice asking and seeking return of the improperly and contrary to the by-laws fine that was imposed. They have accused you of something found you guilty and imposed a fine, this is contrary to law in Canada in which everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Mr. Segal as solicitor is obligated to read letters sent to him by the members, he even charges OAHI for this service!
You should also send Registered Letters to the President, the Secretary and the Registrar demanding a hearing or return of the fine and your reports which are your property. I don’t believe OAHI asked you to sign any form of waiver allowing them to keep the reports after their review.
I understand there are several other members who have been treated the same way, and improperly imposed fines have been levelled without any form of proof of the allegations and fines imposed. It is unfortunate that OAHI would take advantage of a situation to extort monies from the folks in the Association who have no rights! No voting rights, no way to have their voice heard. Sure sounds like OAHI is conspiring to actively extort money any way it can.
** It is also unfortunate CAHPI is aware of this via the Ethics Chair Mr. Lawrenson, and I ask point blank here on this forum what he in his capacity is going to do about this. This is unacceptable if CAHPI and OAHI are conducting themselves in this manner. This is because the some executive BOD from OAHI are on the BOD of CAHPI. Which would call in to question the whole works! There is no excuse that Mr. Thomas Lloyd, and Andrew Dixon do not know what is going on as Mr. Lloyd is Chair of OAHI Discipline Committee and Vice President.**
What is even more unfortunate is that the membership as a whole in OAHI either does not know what is going on, or turns a blind eye to it. Not to mention the financial irregularities due to the lack of proper and timely reporting, and minutes of the meetings. Given the performance and the attitude of the BOD of OAHI and other medling I am not surprised at what is going on. What is even more disturbing is that the OAHI lawyer is well aware and apparently has failed to instill and act on the proper advice as are others on the BOD who have acted and continue to act negligently.
Very strange indeed.
How convenient… They set it up so that you can pay by credit card. Must be expecting to hand out several fines. :shock: A quick and easy fine with a quick and easy payment system. Talk about a perfect world.
Letter outlining the procedure to be followed with regard to any form of discipline within OAHI from the OAHI lawyer of record.
This is a prime example, you can see for yourselves that things particularly the financial info is not current, nor is the 20 day upgrade notice upto date, nor any minutes of the BOD meetings! The last minutes posted are prior to January 2005!
No current financial info either. Hmmmm.
**Board of directors meeting minutes
Board of Directors Meeting Minutes Jan 10, 2005 [2/10/2005
Meeting held in Toronto at Training Center. Meeting minutes
are not yet available.
**Strange that BOD minutes from January 2005 are not yet available along with a lot of other info, that as you can see the record speaks volumes about commitment to keep the members in the dark as much as possible.
Doesn’t sound like Self Regulation, sounds like the right to conspire to run things behind closed doors, the hell with accountability!
Those are pretty expensive fees! Legal extortion (well illegal) at its best!
This little diddy comes by way of Mr. G. Webb former BOD member.
BTW I have yet to ever receive any form of complaint and remain a member in good standing!
"Bend rules or enforce them. It is a choice they make depending on the situation and there inclination. If they want to harass someone there are guidelines there to do that with."
And these are the people who are running the national? That is truly frightening .
I would like to know since when are by-laws and PR 158 used to harass people? Anyone with any brains knows that the rules are in place to ensure good governance and to keep corruption at bay. Sadly Mr. Webb has always had a strange view of his role, the role of the board, and I guess this helps explain why he was an ineffective director. Sadly intimidation, threats, and manipulation are standard practices and are condoned within OAHI-CAHPI, and why Confidentiality agreements are enforced on directors. One must ask why the Association Lawyer is silent and not ensuring compliance with the by-laws and PR 158.
Now you know why OAHI-CAHPI and all activities need to be audited.
BTW I still have several complaints filed with OAHI against several people and several months have transpired, not so much as a reply. However they do seem to be able to waste no time in imposing fines illegally, yet have no problem ignoring complaints.
What is scary about the way they have set things up is that student members are not allowed to do inspections, nor (according to Mr. Faux) are they allowed to switch to an applicant member. OAHI encourages students to purchase E&O insurance before applying for an upgrade to Associate level (Insurance certificate is required). I personally spent $4200 on one year of E&O insurance to be told you can not work until we tell you you can. It takes at least 2-3 months to get the upgrade through. Why would they encourage people to purchase expensive insurance just to sit on their a$$es? They try to prevent students from earning an income and take their sweet time putting through the upgrade. This is a warning to all people thinking of joining as a student - don’t bother. The discounts are not worth becoming an indentured servant. If you are planning to join, join as an applicant.
Perhaps one needs to clarify - what is deemed a student member in that particular association. In the early days I approached OAHI about creating such a category for “students” like those at my college interested in pursuing a career in home inspection. Students were offered certain terms - under which they could be a member of the association. It offered membership prices for attending training and other venues and an opportunity to network with others in the field.
I agree with Craig, if you have other plans that perhaps they need “read” the limitations of the category of membership they are applying for.
Thank you Raymond, first and more importantly CAHPI cannot supersede decisions or matters deemed provincial affairs. Secondly, you are presenting here and presuming this is as a matter of “your” interpretation of a “fair” and “formal” venue to complain about such grievances. As such you also assume that I (along with the ethics committee) are in a position to over-ride this and offer here a formal response. Perhaps like those sick and tired of your allegations and tactics hear your complaints, but would like to say there is a proper process to be followed - like it or not, be it slow or be it prompt!
What about the other side of this issue? Are privy to the inner workings of the committee? I am not defending the decision, but have all the facts been laid on the table? If there has not been due process – than I too would agree – there are issues. But having served in reviewing complaints or allegations of ethical concerns in the past, some complainants fail to follow up and provide enough information to support or substantiate their case. Others tend to overlook other details that are possibly providing another side of the issue.
Certainly I understand your concern, but possibly you have done very little in the eyes of others to help your own cause. You continue on a hunt to unearth all evil doings, in order to belittle and slander OAHI and CAHPI and its members! Whether they are true/false or questionable is for others to decide. But don’t confuse “rights” with “right”.
I commend you for sticking up for what is right, however, there have been numerous allegations in which only one side has been communicated, fairly or not right here on this forum. Members or not - your publicly stated comments are becoming a matter of record, and catching the attention of other readers. They are open to the public and any person to render an opinion. Perhaps your communiqués have often expressed another side of your behaviour and worked against you and NACHI more so than realize.
[FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana]In the words of Vern posted before on this forum *
[FONT=Verdana]Certainly if there is merit, this is a concern, but it is out of the jurisdiction of CAHPI - Ethics Committee. It is a provincial matter. So in closing I suggest that you file this provincial matter of OAHI with OAHI. And, for the records that this is not a “formal” response to your posting. [/FONT]
Well firstly its not a matter of what the students should read, the fact is the way the by-law is written is restriction of practice. There is nothing OAHI can do to stop anyone from practicing as Nachi member and being a Student of OAHI at the same time. Ditto Retired inspectors. It is no different then a Code Inspector who is doing municipal inspections, and home inspections on the side and joining as a Student. OAHI has no authority to stop him from doing that because it is a livelihood. Also why would OAHI request Students to have E&O and then place such a restriction? It can’t it only thinks it can and the legal minds I have spoken to agree, what is even worse is OAHI collects the money of Students, denies them the right to vote and then turns around makes accusations, ignores due process by pronouncing his guilt with no proof. One is innocent until proven guilty surely you must agree with that tennent?
As a matter of fact I would encourage Students or anyone who has been targeted and fined to ignore OAHI rulings and continue to do as they have and let OAHI prove itself in court. It sure is certain any member is not going to be treated fairly by OAHI and the zealots.
I am not assuming anything the letter speaks for itself that the student rec’d he is not alone others have found themselves in the same boat. Pay the fine or your out! The letter is not even from the DPPC, nor can the Secretary impose finds or supercede the DPPC, it is a conflict. Sorry to hear you think otherwise. I am also aware that your position as Ethics Chair is in fact useless, I have always said the fact that discipline reverts back to the Provincial body speaks volumes about complicity and any real or percieved power of CAHPI. There is no response be it fast or slow thats part of the problem. It is well documented how OAHI hides things and ignores things. I saw your objective review and response to one complaint lodged by another, and I must say given the facts your review and opinion were bias, myopic and certainly subjective. I was socked to see your comments given what I was able to find out. It seems you let your animosities get in the way. Not good, and not good to have put such in writing in my opinion.
I am very familiar with the way the by-laws are to be administered and I am well aware of due process, and what and what cannot be done. This matter is outside the confines and the power of the Secretary particularly without any form of hearing or provision of providing proof of allegations simply stated in a letter demanding payment of fine. Sounds and looks cowardly to me and many others. Remember I served as DPPC Chair and had my eyes opened big time! Still have many records which indicate a lot of shady activities.
BTW didn’t OAHI screw you out of $3000? I remember you complaining about that and how you were prepaired to throw in the towel, until they decide to give you an award of merit.
I know for a fact the complainants have not been followed up because I have copies that I was provided by these members who have been fined. I also can speak on my own behalf because I am in the same boat. I have several outstanding complaints many filed back in 2005. Not even a formal reply let alone an investigation. Again I am not the only one.
I am not here to help my own cause, I know what my reputation is and I know what CAHPI and OAHI are willing to do and to what extent they are willing to go to. I also suggest you take a look at the discussions on the CANUCK list, and I suggest you ask why the decision to suspend me alone was made on the OAHI Cafe considering the nature of the discussions.
Well I didn’t start it but I will continue to expose it. Again for whatever reason I have yet to receive any complaints or actions against me from OAHI for whatever reason. That means I am a member in good standing, until such time as proven by a committee of my peers via due process via a hearing. Until such time I remain confident of my views, and actions. And more is going to be exposed.
[FONT=Arial][FONT=Verdana]In the words of Vern posted before on this forum [/FONT] Quote:
* When you bad mouth someone or another organization you are damaging yourself and your own organization. If bill wants to bad mouth someone then the thing he says is reflected back on him. When you badmouth CAPHI the general public does not know much about them or NACHI so there opinion is formed that Home inspection Assoc. are not good. Then they extend the opinion to all Assoc, and to the members of those Assoc. *
[FONT=Verdana]None of this is good for our business, reputation etc.[/FONT]
Well if the truth hurts that is unfortunate. Obviously Vern does not have the same unfortunate problems we do here in Ontario and I would not wish that on anyone. I also believe Vern has never been threatened with physical violence either by a supposed esteemed member of his provincial association.
Thank you there is no way I would submit this issue to you for a rendering because I don’t believe for a minute you are objective anymore then anyone in OAHI and CAHPI who have shown how they will run things, be damned the rules and regulations.
Unfortunately no one can rely on OAHI to do the right thing, I know that and many more members know that. So the best avenue is to expose the corruption and the improper actions. Perhaps the BOD and Committees will take note and think about acting in proper and legitimate actions in the future, but I don’t think that will happen because the spirit of corruption is ingrained in the psyche of those who think they are invincible.
My appologies but Huston we have a problem, a big big problem. I am sure Craig can fill in any blanks and can speak for himself, I know him to be reliable and honest, as I do of others who have confided in me.
Lets not forget about the lack of accounting and good accounting practices and the fact the last quarter and year end, and the 1st quarter and 2nd quarter have not been seen by anyone, nor are there any minutes of meetings produced for dissmenination to the members. So how can anyone be assured of anything decisions wise and money wise. So much for self regulation and accountability.
Certainly this post is directed to a very small handful, but can we not move on in a positive light? Complaining, of course, is just the surface symptom of a much deeper problem–discontent. It seems ironic that you are a member in good standing of the association you complain most about - but fail to see the value of doing something postive to invoke change. It’s obvious your complaints fail to see change.
The truth of it, though, is that finding fault is easier than making positive statements or constructively doing something about it. With that in mind - I think there are now officially more threads involving complaining on the Canadian side of the NACHI forum about the discontent expressed towards OAHI and CAHPI than there are threads about really helping other home inspectors.
BTW: Yes - OAHI did not pay me that $3000 - but life has moved on. Perhaps my error in not asking for a contract in writing. In hindsight it was a blessing in disguise - it opened the door for better money making opportunities through Humber College and other contracts. Even your good friend Roy noted value in my “free” online home inspectors course. That’s what I see as positive results.
Claude when I signed up it basically said on the OAHI website that a student gets discounts, can’t advertise affiliation and is not inspecting homes. I read that as OK - don’t advertise affiliation with OAHI and it will be fine. It did not say the student MAY NOT INSPECT HOMES. It implies that in the by laws which you do not get until after you pay and join. One would assume they would not be forced to abstain from work after purchasing nearly $5000 worth of insurance. As a matter of fact in the upgrade forms it says applicants should have at least taken the defect recognition class before starting out in business. All of these factors and others lead me to believe it would be ok to inspect under the NACHI banner. This was an honest mistake. Obviously I would have joined as an applicant if I had known this would happen.
Mr. Faux fined me $150 and ordered me to cease inspecting. I called him and apologized and admitted I didn’t even realize it would be a problem inspecting as a student provided I did not advertise affiliation with OAHI. I also informed him that I paid for the insurance and I was done all of the classes. In fact I think the lowest mark I received was in the high 80’s. I asked him if I could pay the fine, cancel my student membership, and re-apply as an applicant member. I also informed him inspecting was my income stream and I could not afford to wait for 2-3 months for OAHI to get in gear and finish up my application. I had already been waiting for months at this point. He responded “I can not allow you to re-apply as an applicant member pay the fine and wait or quit. I is not my problem you joined under the category you did"
I was treated very disrespectfully by Mr. Faux. The truth of the matter is that I did not get my due process from OAHI. I did not get a copy of the complaint and I did not get a hearing - so I paid the fine and quit.
Claude I really hope that you do not condone the treatment I received from Mr. Faux. He is acting outside of the OAHI by laws and he cost OAHI my membership. I am an educated, honest, and respectful person and I was treated like a monkey. I can read and I definitely do not remember seeing this on the OAHI website:
-make no money and pay out lots of money!
-be denied an income stream for your family by the secretary!
-pay big fines!
-wait weeks on end to find out which classes are recognized!
-get ignored by the registrar!
-BE treated like a monkey!
All this for only $200 + GST!!!
Bonus: Sign up today and we’ll waive the GST from your first $150 fine!
This sure sounds like quite the scam going on there.
Has anyone contacted a television station, sounds like it would make a hell of a story…:shock: