When were panels not allowed in clothes closets?

lol…Not everyone is Under the 2005 NEC…do clarrification is obviously a direct response to Smart A$$ electricians finding ways around issues.

Was only trying to explain WHY they may allow it…not justifyling it…

You know as well as I do when you start to question the AHJ and you find a weakness in the understanding…it can be swayed…

Lastly…as in the original poster…it has been done and approved by the local AHJ’s…not ME…lol…so obvioulsy not all AHJ’s see things the same way…

Harvey:

In spite of all the opinions and comments here I hope that you did in fact call the panel in the medicine cabinet a DEFECT!

I would stand behind you!

lol…who SAYS we all dont stand behind him…thats a weird statement Joe…

My JOB as a instructor is to possibly EXPLAIN why some AHJ’s might allow it…most certainly as far as a HI is concerned it is a DEFECT…thats a NO BRAINER

If the clothes, shelves and bar are removed, would the installation become acceptable? The same in a kitchen when a panel is found in a cabinet with storage, if the shelves and storage are removed would it also become acceptable? In other words what constitutes a clothes or linen closet?

Well since anything I say will be viewed as an opinion I will say this…

If if is inside the bedroom you may have a hard time convincing a AHJ…with that said…and I again am devils advocate here…

1.) If you have a hall closet which has the shelves removed, bar removed to a point it simply can’t be added back with a simple step and you can meet the clearance requirements in regards to a service panel then you may have an arguement…

2.) No AHJ is going to allow it UNLESS you can prove to them this is going to take place…

I have seen a situation where their was clearance and someone wanted the panel in a cloth closet in a rather large house…the clothes closet was still like 12 x 12 anyway…yeah…3.5 million dollar house…anyway…

Not sure why they wanted it their…so they renamed the room on the original blueprints calling it something else…and the panels were allowed…

Now…not as easy on pre-existing homes…

now in the kitchen panel…still have the issues of clearance and work space and so on…those situations would not change

Paul:

Most of what you say is weird!

Please concede, the panel is located where it should not be located, most would agree.

Geeezeee!

What I say is weird?..that coming from an Electrician who probably has not physcially installed anything in years?

You obviously as MOST have said before only see things in Black and White…figured as much.

Most CERTAINLY an HI should write that up…I said that already before in the post…but we are bound to educate and explain it…Atleast it is not simply posting AGAIN code without explanation.

What I say is TRUE and It has been done…obviously you are not able to READ the posts…

Is it not weird to change your opinion to increase your lecture & Speaking money…?..You have waffled on half the topics here at one point or another…and then comment on the “Mortal Sin” for which you created…nice Joe…

Anyway…if we simply cant have a running topic here then it is useless…you seem to want to be confrontational with me at all points and never explain your end…are your threatened??? sounds like it…

The person asked a direct question…I answered it in my opinion from what I have seen…if you are going to sit their and say NO AHJ will reclassify locations to allow certain things then I say continue with the day dreaming…you are mistaken.

Doing lectures and spitting CODE everywhere is not educating HI’s

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and you can post opinions anytime you want, I will read them and when I disagree I say so!

You are always ready to start something with your remarks! You make little sense and have no clue about the earlier codes!

I am amused by you especially when you try to show everyone how you can interpret the code to your satisifaction! It is too bad, I feel sorry for your students!

Students, do they ever get to express their opinion or must they listen to your misinterpretations?

I am a proud “old man” and have been very successful in my chosen career. :wink:

I feel sorry for YOUR students…mine get taught CODE…but when a topic is being discussed in general to understand it you have to look at ways it is listed.

You simply list it as YOU deem fit…which is WRONG…Oh yes I have heard about some of your classes JoeBu…

I have done quite well as well in my CHOSEN career…and guess what…at HALF your age…

I simply posted a way possibly one AHJ might allow something versus another to a direct question…when teaching CODE I teach it to how it is written…

You are the biggest suck up I have ever seen…best of LUCK to you Joe…but I can see how you developed your STYLE…

I dont interpret anything other than how it is written…the opinions are in reflection to a question that was asked…ingrate!

This is also coming from a Seasoned electrician…as yourself who has never seen Compression Crimps on OCPD’s in Commerical applications yet it is seen…guess another one of my weird posts huh…

If it does not MEET what JOEBU thinks is right…everyone else is wrong…

Joe! Paul!

For the love of Nick, would you two please quit!

Both you guys are way more experienced and knowledgable in electricity (really, only the application of electricity to residential and commercial building wiring). We seek your knowledge and opinions with regards to our profession. If you two must fight it out, based on your profession, take it somewhere else. :mrgreen:

An honest difference of opinion is understandable, but sometimes both or you go way too far.

Personal slams, be they passive (lol… Paul) or agressive (%#@*!, Joe) don’t help and are not appreciated and do not progress your respective cases.

If you have to argue, debate the facts.

Don’t slam.

There now I have pulled your tale!

http://www.nachi.org/forum/showpost.php?p=24351&postcount=28

You are someone who needs to be aware of respect, you are with comments and that is your right, but between you and me I think that you really are not a happy person, and want to take it out on the comments made that seem to put you in your place. I will continue to be kind and avoid the remarks similar to your’s because I know that they will come back and haunt you someday.

Best thing for you is to try to make more babies and make your wife happy. I wondered about that situation?

OH and by the way “IN GOD WE TRUST” was on the twenty dollar bill I lost today here in Las Vegas.

PS: Do you have the TIA’s, Preprints,TCR’s, TCD’s, ROP’s, and ROC"S?

I’ll bet you don’t and they have the reasons for the rules.

Will,

Point well taken…nothing is always BLACK and WHITE and I tried to explain that in my posts…If he would READ the posts he would see I call the exact things a defect…BUT I happen to know of specfic applications that are NOT of my creation for the most part…and the AHJ’s vary on things.

Now…I do not teach students to work around the CODE…I was explaining a personal experience or something I have direct knowledge of…not how I would teach it and so on…then he says something like…feels sorry for MY students…

I ACTUALLY thought members would get a kick out of hearing some things I have seen…BUT joe takes everything as BLACK and WHITE…not thinking it is possibly just a good story to tell…I have LOST all respect this guy…anything i post in regards to a story explain why I posted it…and in most part is based on a question directly from a member…

Sure you may fall for his NEW LEAF…only because he finally understood he would loose NACHI money if he did not finally learn it…
I feel sorry for everyone that falls for his attempts to belittle…I
guess everyone forgets his past comments…anyway…point taken…

My posts were experience…not simply STAMPING code and saying NO it cant be done…EXPLAIN it…dont just SAY IT…

I can EXPLAIN every post I make in regards to code......not just spit references......I dont need to impress anyone here.....I know where I stand....

I did not take money from NACHI for a year trying to make electricians....

Both of you are way (and getting further all the time) out of line.

I would ask for both of you to cool down and stop this childish display.

Consider! You are on a public board. As such, you are both bringing shame upon yourself and upon NACHI.

If you two are really bound and determined to duke it out, I would suggest that you take it private, between yourselves and yourselves only, either on the phone or via private e-mail.

This is not the place. Your public bickering does not advance the purpose of NACHI, nor enrich the members, nor serve any purpose other than you two getting into a public choad war which no one is interested in.

The fact that you have both chosen to do this in public speaks loads to your real purpose.

Take it private. -X

Joe…are you sure you are not speaking about the man who called me on the phone yelling and upset because you posted negative stuff about NACHI inspectors on another board and then called me…and were upset because it would cost you money due to your actions…

babies…Boy you are way off…MY son is adopted and a gift from Above and WOW…if that does not show you the REAL man you are in that statement I dont know what does…me and my wife cant have children so you are one SICK old fart…

Amazing…You are a shallow old man…

Yes…spend that NACHI money in Vegas…

Will: I agree, now the facts.

Is a panelboard installed inside of or behind a medicine cabinet with no working space in front a defect or not?

How would you report that defect?

If you READ my posts I did not invoke it…BUT you are right…but I have seen many others SOIL NACHI on these boards before this…

Anyway…thats fine…tell you what JOE…I know you NEED this INCOME…I dont…my electrical contracting business does just fine without NACHI…

My posts are here to help…not TAKE from members…

You got it Will…I wont soil the board anymore…Joe can handle it all from here…it is what he wanted anyway because it FUNDS him…I did it to volunteer and help…

Joebu…I have no respect for you old man…BUT you can have it…I have better things to do…you only see things as YOU see it…

Thanks Will…trust me…I am done:)

Please, both of you.

Read this out loud to yourselves.

I take no side in your argument. I do, however, appeal to my right as a NACHI member to ask both of you to not post such childinsh bickering in a publically viewable area.

Any such squabbles between you two should be off-line.

Please, no more here.

Here’s some lighten up.

http://b4uclose.tripod.com/cockamamiephotos/index.album?i=13

Knew I could count on you, Erby!

Like breaking up a fight between your two best friends (who are both acting like jerks) by cutting a joke.

Always works.

My hat is off to you. The comedians will truely inherit the Earth!

I have to agree with Will. These threads are getting ridiculous. There really is no reason to always throw in ways a contractor can get around the code, Paul. That isn’t what the average HI here is looking for. Simple straight forward answers would be much appreciated. Maybe you can just use the personal message feature to hash these things out. I’ve been a Journeyman electrician for 15 yrs. and I know that certain articles in the code can have so many exceptions and footnotes, but the average HI doesn’t need to know that. You both provide the HI’s on this board a lot of good stuff but sometimes they have to really wade through a lot of crap.