Where are we headed?

Interesting Article for some.


Marcel :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Interesting that this article refers to ‘Immigrant’ labor (read: Illegal Immigrants).

So, illegals are the back bone of our building industry?

That is just plain sad.

Not all immigrants are illegal. :roll:

I know my grandparents were legal, The American way they call it. This country was built by WHO?

Of course. But try to get the mainstream media to acknowledge that fact.

Still no clue, eh? :mrgreen:

It was built by people who came here, through hardship and danger, only to face more hardship and danger.

I cannot accept people who, clearly, violate laws (crossing the border without proper authorization, paperwork or planning) and want to claim a ‘right’ to stay here and get free medical care, mortgages, small business administration loans and friggin’ re-elect Luiz Gutiaraz to another term in Congress.

What ever happened to, 'Do good, follow the rules and do good."?

If you lived in california i would understand how you almost hate these people. But you are in illinois. I think most of them are just trying to make it in life and the politicans have used them for their own interest (watch my left hand while I do what i want with my right hand and no one will notice) etc…

There are people who enter our country illegally with the intent to fly airplanes into high rise buildings. There are also people who come here from poorer countries looking for opportunity and who are willing to do work…normally, jobs that would otherwise go unfilled.

You need to rethink your position, Will, assuming you have put any thought into it, at all.

The article makes no reference to “illegal” immigrants…just immigrants. There is a difference.

Hope that helps.:wink:

While teh article makes no specific mention of illegal immigrants, it is a commonly known fact here that several subs use “undocumented” workers for drywall, landscaping and other sub work.

The author may have intentionally avoided the illegal issue, to focus on the rest of the article without it turning into exactly the conversation we are having here.

And then, maybe he didn’t mean “illegal” immigrants at all and that is why there is no “specific mention” of them.

That possibility is why I used the word “may”. The presence of illegal workers in the construction industry is not much of a secret (at least not here). I would think that an article focusing on this specific part of the industry and the role of immigrant labor would either be irresponsible/incomplete for not mentioning it, or intentionally left it out.

Either way, I am not ascribing intentions (although I offered one possiblity for the lack of mention of illegals), just noting the lack of mention of a pretty well known (and related) issue.

If you listen to any news shows, or most Democratic politician, you will notice that during discussions of the illegal immigrant issue, they hardly ever use the illegal adjetive. This is done on purpose, to attempt to change the issue. In fact, many on the left believe that the use of the worek ‘illegal’ is, in itself, ‘racist’. This is clear.

As to these people coming in and working and doing work that no one else would do, I disagree. Someone else would do the work, just not at the very low wages that illegals are paid.

What is needed:

  1. Enforce border control.
  2. Enforce laws already on the books that would prohibit hiring illegals.
  3. Deny free medical care, schooling, etc to non-documented immigants.

No new laws are needed, only enforcment of those already on the books.

I find it very interesting that when I do draw inspections, whenever I start taling pictures, almost all of the hispanic people at the site run to get out of the picture. :shock:

I find this very interesting.

Oh, you’ve noticed that too! :shock:

Maybe they were just trying to be helpful Will. :wink:

There is no empirical evidence of that. But it does make a good sound bite.:roll:

They very well could be.

I mean, I’ve had some guys do work at my house that I would never think of doing myself. They did it and I got the same quality work done as if I had hired a regular contractor who would have been using the laborers anyway.

AND I got it for way cheaper, now I’m not talking about the need for an Architec. It’s just alot of hands on heavy labor work that was done and I could even get locals to do it (too many breaks, cell phones, dragging feet)

These guys are good and have other jobs lined up.

I’m not speaking for all of them, but most do the work others don’t want to !!!


But that’s what there going through now, “hardship and danger”, if not they wouldn’t be trying to leave.


If you do get a contractor, he is using them anyways and still raping you.

So who’s making out on that deal and who’s getting used and abused and ripped off.


I need to move 20 yards of dirt, I need it done quick and the area in broom swept condition… hmm…should I pay someone $20.00 and hour have them take two days and numerous breaks to complete the task or pay someone $10.00 an hour who is going to get it done the way I want to.


But even the legal ones present problems when they set up perfectly legal companies but hire illegal help, that is, pay illegals under the table.

This is how the game is played in my area, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that it’s happening everywhere.

Man marries local woman (either one being of whatever ethnicity) and they set up a company… say El Nopal Drywall Inc., then man hires friends and friends of friends, sometimes 2 or 3 dozen of them, from Mexico or any of a number of Central and South American countries, and pays almost all of them cash. The illegals are very hard workers. I’ve talked to several in the last 15 years, they generally work 6 ten hour days. They don’t get paid overtime because all of them are working footage prices. As they all work together in large groups and split the footage price, the leader(s) set a pace and you either fit in with that pace or you are replaced. The faster they work, the more they all make. They stuff their vans or trucks with workers and many live together in the same house to save expenses so that as much money as possible can be sent back to their homes (usually Mexico). Then about the first week of December, they head back to Mexico. Christmas is a big thing for them, it’s almost a month long holiday. If their wives saved enough money, they can stay for as long as 1-3 months, then they start trickling back in the spring for another 9-11 months of long hours and hard work.

As people, I like them. They generally are among the hardest working, certainly they are willing to put in the longest hours. The ones that I have met are respectful. I like their music. I love their food. But they shouldn’t be here illegally, no matter how they are hired or what “needs” we may have to fill in our economy.

It’s funny, but I don’t remember there ever being a lack of qualified drywall help in Portland 20 years ago, but somehow the general contractors were willing to give them a break, and once they got a foothold in the market, they’ve completely taken over all of the work. You can’t find a non-hispanic crew with more than a few workers that is non-union. As a drywall contractor, I’m backed up into the high end market, that’s my last refuge. If the house isn’t being built or remodeled for anything less than 2 million, I don’t have a shot at getting the project. It’s the reason why I refuse to hire or train any even the legal immigrants, because once they learn how to do our quality of work, I will have lost everything like so many others have.

The reasons why I can’t compete are obvious. They are willing to work for cash, in fact, have to be paid in cash. They are willing to work 6 ten hour days on average, and sometimes longer if needed. They are willing to live together and commute together. They can load a project up with 20 workers and get it done in one day (the sellout g.c.'s love it). They are willing to get paid a low rate for piece work, there is no way that I could get local help to start for some of these guys low wages, let alone insist that they work 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for them.

Here are a few things that hiring illegals does to the economy:
1.They don’t pay state income taxes
2.They don’t pay federal income taxes
3. They don’t pay social security taxes
4. I can’t train the local kids (that I used to train regularly) who struggled in school and would be willing, at least at that time, to apprentice themselves to someone because of the money they could eventually make as journeyman. Many of the guys that I trained started their own companies or work for the union. Not anymore, I bet it’s been close to 10 years since that has happened. Not conincidently, about the same time the illegals really started taking over. This has had a very negative impact on society, and one that to my knowledge has not been addressed. These construction jobs used to go to some of the kids who had trouble fitting in elsewhere. Give them a hammer and let them take out some energy in a construction trade for several times minimum wage had some appeal to them back then, it’s impossible now, because illegals don’t hire and train local, legal help for the most part.
5. They spoil the g.c.'s in that the g.c.'s can get everything done fast and cheap, just the way they like it.
6. Those that hire them don’t pay unemployment taxes and in a lot of case, workers comp insurance.

And here’s how it effects you, I’m trying to get into the h.i. biz because I’m so fed up with trying to compete. Don’t think that I’m the only guy in construction that is thinking the same thing. I’m sure you’ll be competing for h.i. biz in your area with competition that left construction because they are tired of competing with illegals, or those that set up legal companies that hire illegals.


This is a good example of what you are saying. Obviously it is not in the construction business but is a good example none the less.