Wind mit inspection for a home that new owners believe are impact windows. The home was built and windows installed in 2000. Very high quality windows but I can’t prove they are impact rated. They are PVC windows and the glass label says Triple Diamond Glass Tempered. Attached is a pic of the label on the frame. Does anyone have any experiance with these.
Wind Rated. People often get confused because hurricane rated is an ambiguous term used by many people. Homeowners often don’t know the difference until we deliver the bad news.
Just out of curiosity did they have a wind mitigation prior to closing on the house?
Their cost of homeowners allegedly is only 1500 per year for a 3000 sq ft home. They have not shown any docs.
The following may help you provided they are the same window…
Thanks Humberto but that method only lets you go back to 2001. This home was built in 2000. Likely a code cycle even older.
Guessing, or using wrong NOA for the purpose of trying to get someone credits is insurance fraud
I do not believe using the wrong mistakenly would be fraud. I believe if you tried the ones on file with the building department you would have done your due diligence .
You can only try your best as an inspector. I believe if you do not have fraudulent intent and you always try your best to do the same things the same way it will be pretty tough to get proven to have committed fraud for being wrong.
There is NO WAY we can be sure of anything we can only try our best. People, homeowners, contractors can all likely falsify everything we use to "prove these thing anyhow.
Bill are you trying to make wind mits go away or just the ability for regular self home inspectors to not be able to do them.
If they make them as tough as you and Robert say they should be the only ones who will be hurt are those who do them.
The huge companies WILL NOT raise their rates and those who work for them will be required to do all the work for the same price. Those like me who work for ourselves will quit doing them because those like me will not work for prices to studiedly low.
What is you guys end game? What is your goal? What do you want regular inspectors to do in regards to wind mits and making money and or getting work or do you only wish for the big companies to keep the bizto themselves. They are are all as corrupt as the insurance companies and the OIR.
I agree. Fraud is a crime , there has to be intent, we see fraud everyday but proving it is another thing. Pretty sure fraud cases would roll up hill when it comes to Insurance Inspections. We are limited and often with limited info in a convoluted world.
Meeker, I cannot believe you posted this:
**The same thing will happen here that happened to the appraisal business. It will take a couple of years to kick in , but when it does it will not be pretty. This industrty is doing it to themselves. Part of it is due to the OIR for not clarifying the intent of hte form, but a lot of it is due to inspectors not fully educating themselves on ow to do things corretly. **
If you were referring to my post, I was not guessing but attempting to point him in a direction where he may have received answers. It wasn’t an attempt to state the opening qualified. Simply a source or resource where he could find information. It used to be called here trying to help out a fellow inspector.
It seems lately that every time anyone here legitimately posts anything to attempt to help someone else, the attacks on integrity and fraud accusations start flying. Personally I have more than enough work to stay busy and I’ve never intentionally done something I’ve known to be fraud. I’m quite sure I’ve made my share of mistakes as anyone else here.
But lately, I start to think about replying due to the “Negative Nelly’s” and their stinging remarks of fraud and lawsuits and the like. The music is getting old guys. Change the tune or just move on. You start to sound like scorned housewives after awhile. Personally I don’t get it. Why not join and make a difference instead of constantly attacking others intentions or supposed inexperience.
When I read a particular post recently made by a certain “Negative Nelly” (not you Bill) stating that out of all the wind mits he’s performed (some on homes built in 2006 or more recent) and that less than a handful actually qualified for discounts or “passed his muster” or “quality control”, I find that to be ludicrous at best. Unless of course he’s only performed a handful of them?
To those “Negative Nelly’s” you’re welcome to continue posting. Obviously no one is going to object. But, do you actually believe doing so in this fashion will bring about the positive change you supposedly desire. I have to believe not. Maybe it’s time to lay the “cross” down and stop being a “martyr”. No one here I believe is interested in the doom and gloom prophecies you’re predicting. The handful of guys that I consider experts in performing these inspections aren’t on here jumping all over everyone’s posts whenever they deem them to be incorrect.
In any event, That’s my rant for the week I apologize to those who legitimately are out there attempting to help.
Bill personally I like you and think you are a great inspector. i recommend you to folks.
On this wind mit stuff I do not agree with you. I think you are fighting a losing battle.
I think the OIR needs to make the changes and make the form as clear as possible so there is NO GREY AREAS. The should have a hotline fore people to call to answer questions. The building departments should make the info more easily available.
I believe most here who take the time to talk about it are doing the best they can or at least up to the industry standards.
It has been my experience that the single man ops are far more accurate than the huge companies and even the insurance companies own people. I am not referring to smaller multi inspector firms like John S’s who I believe also do their best.
You do not make your living doing them but many of us do. WE CANNOT CHARGE MUCH MORE than the huge companies for the same or a stricter “less discounts” to the home owner report. You will go broke. I may have been wrong once or twice but at least I can say I never intentionally gave someone a credit they did not deserve and never will.
Ignorance is truely bliss…
Make no mistake, the forms intenet is satisfied and any attempt by “yourself” to define it as anything less than a code inspection is just your opinion. It’s all fun and games until someone who actually knows what they are doing comes behind you.
Bert, here is the best part…
wait for it…
“They” actually don’t do wind mits(out of their own mouths), “they” just want to tell you how to do them.
So I might agree with most of what they write, I can not agree with their attitude and superiority complexes. Some just love to hear themselves. I really love it when they degrade almost everyone(including actual experts and founders) all in one statement. Even if they are right they are wrong.
And there is my rant for the week :p;)
Those windows have a FL approval:
330.1C-13000Vinyl Casement WindowLimits of Use (See Other)
Approved for use in HVHZ:
Approved for use outside HVHZ:
Design Pressure: +/-
Other: C-LC25-72x72 XX; C-C40-60x60 XX; C-C50-36x72 XCertification Agency Certificate
Quality Assurance Contract Expiration Date
Created by Independent Third Party:
Created by Independent Third Party:
You’ll need to contact the manufacturer as it appears they have an approval that may be rated depending on the glazing. What did the glazing say in the etching?
They are rated per method 1 option A:
[FONT=Times New Roman][size=2]***(1) Method 1.*** Products specifically addressed in the code through performance criteria and standard test methods or standard comparative or rational analysis methods, which cannot be approved through the plan review and inspection process, shall demonstrate compliance with the Code through one of the following:
(a) A certification mark or listing from an approved certification agency indicating that the product is in compliance with the Code. Indication of compliance shall be by certification to standards adopted by the Code.
If we can agree that home inspectors are prohibited from doing code inspections then are they breaking the home when they do a wind mit?
I am guessing you meant “breaking the law”, and to answer your question technically, possibly…due to the wording of question one.
All three answers require a determination is to whether or not the structure is in “compliance” with a building code.
Many can twist these words to suit themselves, but the reality is, only one individual can certify anything meets code.
…in addition to…
627.711 Notice of premium discounts for hurricane loss mitigation; uniform mitigation verification inspection form.—
(2)(a) The Financial Services Commission shall develop by rule a uniform mitigation verification inspection form that shall be used by all insurers when submitted by policyholders for the purpose of factoring discounts for wind insurance. In developing the form, the commission shall seek input from insurance, construction, and building code representatives. Further, the commission shall provide guidance as to the length of time the inspection results are valid. An insurer shall accept as valid a uniform mitigation verification form signed by the following authorized mitigation inspectors:1. A home inspector licensed under s. 468.8314 who has completed at least 3 hours of hurricane mitigation training approved by the Construction Industry Licensing Board which includes hurricane mitigation techniques and compliance with the uniform mitigation verification form and completion of a proficiency exam;
2. A building code inspector certified under s. 468.607;
3. A general, building, or residential contractor licensed under s. 489.111;
4. A professional engineer licensed under s. 471.015;
5. A professional architect licensed under s. 481.213; or
6. Any other individual or entity recognized by the insurer as possessing the necessary qualifications to properly complete a uniform mitigation verification form.
(b) An insurer may, but is not required to, accept a form from any other person possessing qualifications and experience acceptable to the insurer.
Nothing could be further from the truth. There is nothing that prohibits a home inspector from doing a code inspection. The laws only prevent them from doing Code Enforcement. Anyone can inspect and note things in a report that are not code compliant.