4 Point Continuing Education

Local Inspection Issues Florida and SUNachi Inspectors
21

How can someone be denied insurance on irrelevant info. If it is irrelevant they ignore it. If they are denied because of it, it must be relevant.

A perfect example is electrical panel manufacture, some need it some do not. My current form has the ability to add the info if needed. If it is relevant, and I do not put it on the form, they ask(agent).

Either way I tell the customer the Zinsco or Federal Pacific panel MAY be an issue. They(the customer and agent) have several choices, upgrade, use a company that does not require the info or the four point. I did my job and reported that THEY DO HAVE an issue. What they do about it is not my problem. Same goes for estimated life expectancy. If they need it I will give it to them. That is what I do.

I have been making some money on re-inspections for AL wiring. I check after the sparky installs. I do a random sampling of a representative number. I also require documentation from the electrician.

22

I think it was here where I read that one guy used another guys form because his form did not talk about FP or something with the electrical panels. This is the kind of stuff that you want to stay away from.

23

John,
Do you have list of what each insurer requires? What a pain in the butt providing different info. for each company. It’s also time consuming to go back and change or add to the form you’ve already done because your customer is shopping and each company has different requirements. It’s almost easier to provide too much info. and let them decide, which gets into hurting the customer.
I’ve decided that I must change the way that I am currently doing it. The question for me is change it to what and to what extreme.
On a somewhat unrelated note, can anyone enlighten me as to why the insurers need to know about the HVAC? Does it pose a statistical risk?

24

Reece - you could come down and ride along with John one day… see how he does things… it might help you pick a direction and give you some info on how he does it all paperless.

25

Good suggestion Michelle

26

Thank you. I’ll set it up and quit fretting about how to paperless.

27

I have to agree, citizens has their requirements for the inspectors and has approved several different forms without any advise/ council or review from OIR. These other firms will make up their own rules as they go as well leaving the public, inspectors and OIR out of the decision making process it was designed to perform.

If someone would like to present me with some evidence that the FLORIDA OFFICE OF INSURANCE REGULATION is not controlled by the insurance companies I want to see it.

28

Since it was me of which you speak, the NACHI form doesn’t mention FPE panels. Unfortunately, it does mention fuses. I was merely trying to help the Client buy some time to upgrade the electrical system, because one issue led to another.

In the end, the Client was allowed 90 days to correct the problem and received a credit from the Seller. My Client was informed both verbally and in the inspection report that she would more than likely have to upgrade the electrical to obtain insurance. There was no deception of any kind.

I merely provide the answers to the questions the insurance companies ask. If they fail to ask me about the panel, I don’t volunteer that information.

Until there is a unified form, that is the way it will be.

29

I do not provide the panel brand until asked or life expectancy unless requested. After doing many you understand who wants to know what. That is a reason why guys that do them all day long have an advantage.

30

That is why everyone should be doing the traditional 4 point inspection and nothing more.

Doing more hurts the client most times and is rarely requested by anyone.

HOW COME SO MANY JUST DO NOT GET IT??? AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

31

I don’t know if you are agreeing or not!
The problem comes in with the situation of, if you don’t give the insurance company the answers, either they will find someone that will or, the client will have to find a new insurance company, which isn’t the easiest thing to do. The client in some instances, is stuck.

As I said before, the OiR needs to come up with a proper form, only this time, get some input from the inspectors instead of just taking the word of someone who has never done anything with regards to inspection or construction of homes. While they are at it, the can redesign the 1802.

For a small fee, I could do those and the roof cert form and probably only have a four page form for all of it. Of course, it would require documentation, which would most likely cause even more problems!:mrgreen:

32

I agree with some.

I do not believe the OIR should have the right to tell insurance agencies what questions they can ask.

I think when a 4 point inspection is ordered one more similar to mine and less similar to the nachi one should be provided. If they want more they must tell their clients directly what must be inspected and by who.

Those who say that the nachi form is approved should understand. No Crap it is approved it has tons more than what has been requested or needed in the past. of course they approved it.

would YOU ALL APPROVE SOMEONE PAYING $250 FOR AN INSPECTION OR WOULD YOU APPROVE $1000. sry bout the caps.

Someone should have to pay more if they want more than the traditional 4 point.

33

I agree that the four-point should be just what it was intended to be originally. Have certain systems been upgraded and if so when.
No life expectancy, no manufacturer names, just dates when things were updated and since almost everything has a date code on it, how hard can that be?

Now, if the insurers want more detail, I’ll be more than happy to instruct my clients to sell the company my report, for whatever they want to.Or, I can just charge the insurance company 1/2 price for sending them the report. While we are at it, how much should I charge the lender?:mrgreen::mrgreen:

34

I agree with the first paragraph but you lost me on the second.

35

If they want more detail, they can purchase the complete home inspection report as I rarely do stand alone inspections.
I give them your number if they want a stand alone inspection.:mrgreen:
All kidding aside, I actually have given your number out. I don’t leave the house for less than $300.00.

36

Then we agree.
Thanks for the referral I do appreciate it.

37

[FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]So here is what I understand now: Based on Citizens/INACHI Agreement[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]

Give the date of the latest update to all 4 points and:
:
A four-point inspection consists of a visual and/or operational test of the air-conditioning, heating, plumbing, roof covering, and electrical.

An operational test? This is very vague. Especially the and/or. Does this mean if an inspector does a visual inspection an operational test is not necessary?

HVAC: Visual - Look at Heat Pump and Air Handler and determine the date of the latest update. -[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]and/or[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]- Operational Test - Make sure it turns on and cools or heats the home.
Plumbing: [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Visual - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Look at it and determine the date of the latest update - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]and/or [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]-[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Operational Test - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Turn on water at all plumbing fixtures and check for leaks and hot water.
Roof: Visual - Research to find the date of the latest update - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]and/or - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Operational Test - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Inspect the roof[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial] for signs of repairs, leaks and flashing deficiencies.
Electrical: [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Visual - Research to find the date of the latest update to Electrical Panel - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]and/or - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Operational Test - [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=3][FONT=Arial]Verify that there is power to some outlets.?.? (Is that all?)

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=arial, verdana, sans-serif][FONT=Arial]Citizens require InterNACHI membership ID number and the Inspector’s State of Florida Home Inspector’s license number.

You will be required to sign your Four Point Inspection form, provide your InterNACHI ID number and your Florida Home Inspector’s license number for the Four Point report to be accepted by Citizens.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]
More insurance companies want the following photos:

Font and rear of home
Electrical panel with door open
Washing machine plumbing (hoses and stops)
Water heater pressure relief valve
Plumbing under all sinks (kitchen, bathroom, utility, garage, etc)
Roof
HVAC unit
[/FONT][/FONT]
Brand names and material types are not required.

(I hope you enjoyed all of the colors)

38

So, I guess, that all of the different insurance companies will have their own forms then? :D:D:D:D:D

39

Michael,

I like the way you think!

I am interested in seeing you 4-Point form. Where can I see it?

I also agree that providing too much information can be not only dangerous but time consuming and unnecessary.

Ha! Like Sargent Friday always said on Dragnet…“The facts mamm only the facts”

Carl Salvo

40

What information do you provide when the client does not know what Insurance Company they are going to use?