ASHI Fallout Revives Forum

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
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Deleted



Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)


?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Originally Posted By: Mike O’Handley
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Hello to All,


I received a private e-mail from someone about an hour ago, informing me about this particular thread. I suppose I would never have known about it, except that today I have been sort of actively embroiled in a debate with Mr. Burkeson on another board.

First, for those of you who don't know about The Inspector's Journal, it is a free webzine for and about those in the home inspection business. It is similar in some respects to the other public inspector's forum hosted by my friend, Brian Hannigan at Inspection News (http://www.inspectionnews.com).

Second, as much as I appreciate his placing a link to TIJ on this board, I wouldn't characterize TIJ as "an old inspection forum for the recently set free." TIJ was only started last year and was placed in stasis soon after. Also, Mr. Burkeson is incorrect, revival of The Inspector's Journal was not due to "Rank and file defection of ASHI," nor was internal ASHI politics more than a very small part of the reason why TIJ was taken out of stasis.

There has been no significant rank and file defection over there and I seriously doubt there will be - no matter what comes of ASHI branding. Home Inspectors are a stodgy lot, generally unwilling to change their habits easily. Sure, some may leave because of the branding thing, but the number that continue to join ASHI will probably easily outstrip those who leave. Yes, NACHI will garner some of those who leave - as well as some who join ASHI and choose to hold joint membership - but rank and file defections are not now taking place in large numbers. That is my belief, and I think membership numbers next year will prove it out after the branding dust settles.

Now, to The Inspector's Journal

I launched TIJ in March of 1992. TIJ was begun as a completely private effort of mine with the backing of only one sponsor, who'd agreed to barter my work on their software in exchange for hosting, programming and maintaining TIJ's site. Unfortunately, putting together a webzine every month, while still running a fulltime home inspection business and helping someone completely overhaul a software program, takes a prodigious amount of effort and I burned myself out after two installments. Myself and my sponsors then made a conscious decision to place TIJ into unannounced stasis, until I could complete the majority of work on their program and was able to devote more time to the webzine. So, we stopped pushing it to search engines and let it quietly fade into the background while we took care of business.

I won't deny that some of what is happening within ASHI helped to prompt me to pull the sheets off the furniture at TIJ about 3 to 4 months earlier than we'd planned, but what is happening within ASHI was only a small part of the reason. TIJ's sole focus is, and will always be, to be a place where inspectors can learn from each others' successes and mistakes - much like you do here - unencumbered by feelings of loyalty toward any particular HI organization or overbearing postings of a political nature.

Now, that said, I have to take issue with the rest of Mr. Burkeson's remarks. To wit:

"But be warned, heavy handed censorship will be employed if necessary, "

followed by a quote of mine. Let me explain my statement so there can be no doubt as to my intent over at TIJ.

I said, "Anyone that comes here and wants to help others, share their experience and just jaw with other pros is very welcome. We're just a bunch of guys kickin' back talking and we like each others' company."

That is exactly how I want anyone coming to TIJ to feel. TIJ isn't a place where one has to worry about toeing a party line. It doesn't matter to me whether visitors to TIJ belong to professional organizations. If they do, I don't care which one. It doesn't matter to me how much experience one inspector has over another, all are welcome at TIJ and all are welcome to post questions, no matter how trivial. All are encouraged to provide help or information of value to other home inspectors, no matter what their background is, and everyone is entitled to respect. Isn't that what is expected here?

I also said:

"Those who arrive here with a chip on their shoulder, a political agenda, a confrontational, know-it-all or pedantic attitude can pack their bags and leave 'cuz we don't want 'em here."

All true. TIJ is about helping other inspectors to become more technically and professionally proficient. It isn't about egos or who's been in the business longer. It isn't about whether one organization is better than another. It isn't about providing a place where a single HI can consistently and continually dominate every thread unchecked with pedantic minutia, in order to show how much he or she knows. It isn't a recruiting venue for HI organizations.

I won't let TIJ be a place where one can expect to come, flame an organization or person and expect support, because that isn't what we at TIJ are about. Someone wants to vent? That's fine, just don't expect to be allowed to beat the object of your flame to death, because it won't be allowed. Get your frustration out, then move on. The rest of us might feel sympathy toward your plight, but we all have our own troubles and don't want to hear incessant whining. We go there because it is a place to kick back and relax. We don't need to have our tranquility screwed up because one or two people had a bad day.

I like to think of these forums as sort of like a local pub where regulars meet every evening and just kick back and jaw about....whatever. In this case, home inspections. Sure, like any room full of people talking at once, there'll be occasional disagreements, even rudeness toward one another. But, overall the group knows that they are expected to be polite to one another and that there are expected rules of decorum. Violate them, and the bartender might issue a rebuke. Continue to do so, and he might come over the bar, grab you by the scruff of your shirt and toss you out.

I think that if you follow the link to the thread Mr. Burkeson posted above, you'll find the rest of that thread is anything but timid or reserved. The group at TIJ just chooses to get is said and moves on. No expectation of acquiescence to a set philosophy, no expectation that those reading what is posted must agree, no overbearing, pedantic crap to clog things up.

Do I, will I, draw the line? You bet. I won't allow discussion of politics or religion to clog up things at TIJ. Guess that's a carryover from my military days, but it always assured a smooth-running platoon. In fact, the only two times that I ever had any of my troops get in a fight, involved violations of those rules. There's plenty of other forums where folks can talk about that stuff, so I prefer to keep it out. My forum - my choice - my right.

If that sounds like heavy handed censorship - so be it. Nonetheless, you're all invited, even Mr. Burkeson. Just dust the chips off your shoulders, leave your politics and religion with the hat-check girl at the door, remember that we like friendliness - not crabbiness - and come on in.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
Your Inspector(tm)
Kenmore by the Lake, WA

Editor, The Inspectors Journal (http://www.inspectorsjournal.com)


Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Mike,


Fortunately those who arrive here with a chip on their shoulder, a political agenda, a confrontational, know-it-all or pedantic attitude can still freely post their views and comments on the NACHI Message Board without fear of censorship. We value freedom of speech higher than polite pleasantries and have been known to discuss taboo subjects, as always, a tough skin is helpful but not required.

BTW Good luck with your site.

Joe.


--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)

?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Mike O’Handley:


Thanks for coming on the board. I know we had a few fights back when we were on InspectioNAZInews. Forgive me if I was a little rough around the edges back then. Gerry Beaumont is working on me.

Anyway, I am convinced that NACHI is the closest thing to ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT as you say. For example: More than 1/5th of our membership belongs to ASHI. Our chapter meetings, the registered users of this board, and our membership come from many different associations, many different backgrounds, even many different countries. NACHI bashers, service providers, ASHI die-hards, independents, government officials, and you... all come here because they feel welcome...and they are.

Welcome.

Nick
ONE TEAM - SOME FIGHTS

PS How's the rain up there this week?


Originally Posted By: Mike O’Handley
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Hi,


Well, after nearly 6 months with practically no rain we had more than 5 inches on Tuesday, probably nearly that yesterday and rivers are higher than they've ever been recorded. For a while there, we'd thought we'd shaken off our traditional winter weather, but it looks like it's back with a vengeance. icon_confused.gif

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
Your Inspector(tm)
Kenmore by the Lake, WA


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Mike:


With all that flooding... are you going to offer mold testing?

Nick


Originally Posted By: Mike O’Handley
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Not on your life!


I'm a charter member of the DDMG (Don't Do Mold Group). HI are construction consultants not health care professionals. As far as I'm concerned, no home inspector without a degree in mycology or extensive training, background and experience as an industrial hygienist has any business passing him off as a 'mold professional' and offering mold inspections, sampling etc..

If the folks at CDC and EPA can't figure out what constitutes a proper mold sampling/testing protocol, and continue to advise against testing for mold in home transactions, saying that it is a pointless process of no value to the purchaser, why would anyone be idiotic enough to get involved in it, unless they had the ethics of a Newark used car salesman?

We have enough problems obtaining reasonably priced insurance coverage in this profession. We don't need a bunch of ill equipped and poorly-trained cowboys making matter worse for the entire profession just for the sake of fattening their own wallets.

Nuff Said.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
Your Inspector(tm)
Kenmore by the Lake, WA


Originally Posted By: rray
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One of my larger local competitors was originally of the Don’t Do Mold groupl A couple of months ago I passed him on the freeway (I was in the fast lane; he was in the slow lane). On the back window of his truck: “GOT MOLD?” Hmmmm. I guess he does mold now.



Home inspections. . . .


One home at a time.


Originally Posted By: Mike O’Handley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Or,…


He might just be thumbing his nose at the mold guys?

OT - OF!!!

M. icon_twisted.gif


Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



No, I do know that he is now doing mold testing for $175.



Home inspections. . . .


One home at a time.


Originally Posted By: Mike O’Handley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



That’s a shame,


Another one lured to the dark side.

OT - OF!!!

M. icon_sad.gif


Originally Posted By: lfranklin
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Mold is gold nachi_sarcasm.gif


Why is it, the more I learn about mold it seems that I just have more reasons to stay away from it.

What in the world do I not understand, everybody says mold is gold nachi_sarcasm.gif


Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Hey, Larry. Mold IS gold for the greedy. It’s one of the biggest ripoffs in our industry. As my dearl old Grandmother taught me when we did Spring cleaning each year: “If you see mold or smell mold, we’ve god mold. Here’s the Clorox, here’s the stainless steel wool. And you’ve already got elbow grease. Have at it.” Nowadays, I guess our noses and eyes don’t work as well, so we have to hire someone to tell us if we have mold. And if we do, do we clean it up? Ell no, we sue someone! Ah, life. Deserves a good margarita.



Home inspections. . . .


One home at a time.


Originally Posted By: jpeck
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As another Charter Member of the DDMG, not only is Mold is Gold, but they better get it quick because the pendulum will swing back fast.


Think about it.

If you do mold as a Mold is Gold mold inspector, you will only get your referrals from real estate agents by pronouncing the house as 'nope, no mold here'.

What happens when mold does show up after you've just "Cleared" the house? You get the Fat Letter From The Attorney. Now, who has the gold?


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Probably won’t see me there because Mike and I disagree on too many things.


Mike is kind of like Kurt (moderator of the ASHI Forum) in that he can carry on, but no one that disagrees with him can. At least that is the way it was on the ASHI Forum.

Quote

However, mark my word, those who arrive here with a chip on their shoulder, a political agenda, a confrontational, know-it-all or pedantic attitude can pack their bags and leave 'cuz we don't want 'em here. The one thing that we enjoy here is that everyone is friendly, helpful and respectful of others - as it should be.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike

Unquote

He who holds the reins needs to not participate, or be very careful of what they say and how they treat others who disagree. That is how we all learn, first, by disagreeing, then by teaching the other something they did not know. Works both ways.

Censorship cuts down on learning, especially when applied one way in one direction, not on an equal basis.

What do ya say Mike? Will you chase me off when we disagree?


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Deleted



Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)


?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I just don’t like his motto: “One Team - One Fight.” There’s just too much fighting in the world already. icon_lol.gif



Home inspections. . . .


One home at a time.


Originally Posted By: Mike O’Handley
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Hmmm,


Let's see, I've moderated the Building Science Forum for the Journal of Light Construction for nearly 3 years. JLC moderators are given autonomy over their forums. All it takes to have a post deleted is an e-mail from the moderator to the web editor. In all of that time, I've deleted three posts:

The first was when a pair of fellows were at each others' throats. After a number of participants wrote emails to me asking me to rein them in, they were asked to take their argument off the forum, which they did. After that, they continued to email each other for days and their arguments turned from disagreement to threats. None of us would have known that, except one of them eventually took the entire string of emails and posted them to the forum, complete with obscenities. I had all of their threads deleted and warned them that if they couldn't play nice they would have to find another place to play. The fellow who posted all of those emails went away on his own, the other continues to participate to this day.

The second involved a fellow who made some openly offensive comments about a certain ethnic demographic within the construction industry. This fellow was fed up with some of the unskilled labor taking over jobs traditionally held by experienced carpenters and he needed to vent. The trouble was that he used what we all know to be ethnic slurs to do so.(Technically, I didn't delete his stuff, because Brad Bull, the web editor, descended on the guy like a ton of bricks before my email ever made it to him). His offensive posts were deleted but he still participates. What I learned from that was that, even though I have autonomy, JLC is always looking over my shoulder.

The last involved a fellow that used an obscene handle to identify himself, and then tried to turn the thread to a discussion about politics. It began to look like he was looking for a soapbox to espouse white separatist views, so he was warned to keep it about building science. He ignored my warning to keep it about building science, signed back on with a changed handle that was openly racist, and went back down the same path again. He found his handles deleted from his posts and the more political discussions deleted. The rest of what he said was allowed to stay, but he was not. I notified him in writing that he was not welcome and Brad backed me up.

Yep, I'd say that is pretty heavy handed.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
Your Inspector(tm)
Kenmore by the Lake, WA


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Well Mike,


You can rest assured that all of those threads you spoke of would be seen here without deletion. Any "reigning in" would be done by all of us members who disagreed with the postings. I doubt any of our members would email Nick or Chris and ask them to delete the posts.

I have posted things here and gotten bashed, and I have done some bashing of other posts also. It is the way a free forum does and should work.

We have threads on this board that from time to time contain everything from religion to gun control. I certainly can't speak for everyone on this forum, but the opinion seen time and time again in posts is that the members like having no restrictions, no worry about censorship, and the opportunity and ability to speak their minds about any and every subject.

Blaine


Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



bwiley wrote:
I have posted things here and gotten bashed, and I have done some bashing of other posts also. It is the way a free forum does and should work.

And HOW SWEET IT IS!

Those who are uncomfortable with their own views and stances typically like censorship. Those who are comfortable typically like the challenge and the discussion. Those posts on religion and gun control on the NACHI board continue to challenge my mind. Once the mind is no longer challenged, it wastes away into oblivion, mind control, and brainwashing (see Al-Qaeda as an example).


--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.