NACHI Chatter From Another Site

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



12/15/03


I was wrong, the poster quoted above was not badmouthing NACHI, in fact he was defending NACHI form someone else who was making derogatory comments.

I publicly apologize to Doug Hansen and make a full retraction on my comments. In my haste and zeal to support and defend NACHI I made this error in judgment and wish to set the record straight.


--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)

?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Joe,


Who wrote that? Al Gore? Inventing the inspection business is a grand accomplishment. I would like to kiss that person's ring.

If the person that wrote that frequents this board, do they care to be properly recognized?

I for one would like to engage in a healthy debate on the subject.


--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I can’t understand what he’s saying. Is it a complaint about NACHI or a compliment?


Nick ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)


Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Definitely a compliment to NACHI but belittling of members IMO.


Is that an oxymoron?



Inspection Nirvana!


We're NACHI. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Deleted



Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)


?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Well said Joe.



Inspection Nirvana!


We're NACHI. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: Mike O’Handley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Wow Joe!


You have an amazing capacity for spewing poison. Do you need to take a special anti-venom every morning to prevent it from overwhelming your system? Such bitterness! Since you knew the thread was going to be deleted anyway, why didn't you just debate the person? It wasn't like anyone would have bothered to delete what you'd posted? Well, at least not until the 24 hours were up, anyway. ![eusa_naughty.gif](upload://nYl3dmRmAIH81yCdH9V96akYnNa.gif)

Seriously, it sounds like this came from Flame 'n Blame. In truth, I don't know whether it did or not, because I don't spend a lot of time reading the posts thee before I delete them. I have read, and even participated in, a few of them, but by and large I don't make it a priority and I don't remember reading this one. It could have been there. Don't know. Don't care.

What is so stultifying about your "rant" is that you could actually read that paragraph and completely miss the meaning of the first three sentences. If you'd just bothered to allow yourself to comprehend them, you might have realized that the author was embracing newcomers to the profession, only asking them to have a little more humility and to listen to those who're teaching them, instead of making so much noise about how much they know that they miss the message entirely. The premise being that, newcomers to the business, no matter how experienced they 'think' they are, should be a little more respectful when dealing with those who're more experienced at 'this' business and who've been doing it far longer.

I'm guessing that his criticism isn't so much about NACHI, as it is about some of the folks who are in NACHI because they are bitter about not being accepted immediately as equals in ASHI, without proving themselves through numbers of inspections completed, testing and peer review of their work first. That does seem to be the general theme running through some of the ASHI flaming done here, and unfortunately it colors one's perception of NACHI.

I would ask you, what's wrong with being a little humble and listening to those more experienced than we are? Is there another way to learn? The books we read, the educational television and radio programs we watch and listen to are all authored by folks who are, for the most part, more experienced in their fields than others. Don't other professionals besides home inspectors expect the same thing?

Isn't a second year resident at a local hospital subject to evaluation by his or her department head? Isn't he or she going to be evaluated on the ability to listen and learn from that more seasoned professional? Aren't rookie cops required to ride with a more experienced officer for months before they are allowed to patrol on their own. Aren't rookie pilots required to fly second seat for a set number of hours before they are allowed to take over the airliner. Would you trust your life to that just-soloed-and-graduated from flight-school rookie?

Maybe that is what the author is saying. Maybe the message here is stop making so much noise about how the other classroom is treated differently by its teacher and concentrate on being the best that you can be in 'this' classroom. Dwelling on the other only distracts you from your goals, fuels contentiousness and makes NACHI appear to have a mob mentality to the detriment of its members.

There're a lot of experienced and intelligent inspectors here whom I respect, that are helping those newer to the profession - as there are on the ASHI site, the NAHI site, my site, Brian's and others. It is, after all, a teaching medium. The difference that you have here, is that this board, unlike the ASHI board, is wide open to public scrutiny and this is a professional organization's site - not a webzine like Brian's and mine are.

Folks here should ask themselves why it is that they are derided by other inspectors on other sites. Could it be that there is something going on over here that turns others off, besides the simple fact that your's is a new organization? After all, AII is also new in comparison to ASHI, but you very rarely read criticism of AII on other boards.

Ask yourself too, whether you want the folks who're going to be hiring you to miss the fact that these experienced folks are doing their best to ensure that NACHI can stand shoulder to shoulder with ASHI, or, do you want them to read one or two posts, shake their heads in disgust at all the vitriol and then go to one of the other organizations' sites where they don't see that kind of pap?

I'm a fair home inspector and I have enough experience in the business to believe that I can probably hold my own with a lot of the more experienced inspectors in the business. Nonetheless, I think I should look just a tad foolish If I were to try and go toe-to-toe with Melvin Chalfin. Don't you? The contempt shown toward some of the old timers in this business by those newer and less experienced does little to impress those who are the target of such attacks and is unbecoming of those who would call themselves professionals. Furthermore, if the person who made this quote is whom I think it is, there is no self-proclaiming going on, he is indeed one of those who was instrumental in the early days of this business in formulating the general standard of care that most home inspectors use today. Many of us do consider him a sort of pooh-bah in the field. Publicly denigrating him here is futile, panders only to the bitter segment and reads like bitter grapes.

Joe, you've made it more than clear to everyone in the business that your feelings were hurt when ASHI wouldn't give you a 'by' to membership and told you you'd have to remain a candidate until you met their standards. That underlying theme seems to simmer just under the surface of a lot of your posts. Well, I have news for you Bud, it isn't all about you. There're lots of others in the business, including myself, that've met the same obstacles, but we didn't allow the bitterness to consume us. Why not let it go and move on before you fret yourself into an early grave with it?

Why make it one's life mission to attack the sanctimony of those more experienced than we are? Let's face it, they're entitled to their sanctimony. Someday Joe, maybe you and I will be too. That is, if we can be successful and remain in the business long enough.

ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

Mike O'Handley
Editor, The Inspector's Journal
(http://www.inspectorsjournal.com)

P.S.

By the way, Joe. Thanks for hanging out over at TIJ. Hopefully, even you will, hopefully, be able to glean something useful there.


Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



[quote=“Mike O’Handley”]


Why make it one’s life mission to attack the sanctimony of those more experienced than we are? Let’s face it, they’re entitled to their sanctimony. Someday Joe, maybe you and I will be too. That is, if we can be successful and remain in the business long enough.


quote]


sanctimony = Feigned piety or righteousness; hypocritical devoutness or high-mindedness.

Mike,

Part of the struggle is to keep from getting stepped on, on the way up.

Personally, I'm pretty sure I learned some things from the poster that you and Joe refer to. I'm pretty sure that I paid a price for it. I've also rolled 31 years of working experience (working since 13), an education and successful state licensing into a stab at making it as an inspector. I have won realtor business away from experienced inspectors that they've been using for years. I refuse to be labeled a "candidate" for anything at this point in my life.

being humble = Marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful.
Showing deferential or submissive respect: a humble apology.
Low in rank, quality, or station; unpretentious or lowly: a humble cottage.

One of the reasons I selected this business was to call my own shots.

My brothers and sisters at NACHI have helped me along for FREE! I repeat for FREE! I won't name them all because there are too many and I will surely leave someone out.

For their help I humbly respect them and owe a debt of graditude.

I'm having trouble relating to your trailblazers. I think they should hang out where they can call the shots, be shown submissive respect, and label new youngsters in the business.

Candidate inspector indeed!


--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



John and Joe,


Great responses, and I would like to add just one little thing to it.

I have been doing this going on nine years now. If I joined them, I would still be labeled "Candidate" just like their rookies.

If I am ever a Candidate for anything, it will only be for political office.

Blaine


Originally Posted By: mzwerin
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



eusa_clap.gif


Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Some devil’s advocate stuff here.


Give this some thought.

Blaine will only be a "candidate" for public office until he passes the test of election. Then, he'll be a "member".

In some organizations people seek to join, first, they are a candidate for membership, and after passing "the test" of whatever nature, be it election, experience, written or verbal tests, then they are a member.

The difference, good or bad is left to the reader, is that, in some organizations you can join the organization and gain some member benefit from that "candidate" membership while working toward passing "the test" whatever that is.

In other organizations, such as NACHI or public office, you cannot gain member benefits until you have already passed "the test."

Food for thought.


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Erby,


I am stultified! ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



“Dont tell me how to do it kid, I’ve been doing it wrong for 30 years!”


![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)


Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Time out guys.


Mike is a good guy ... much of the time.

Mike is very smart and knows a lot about this business, however, ...

My complaint with Mike is, and has been (I've posted it here and other places before) that he does what he says he won't allow.

For instance, Mike stated that he would not allow personal attacks on his forum, then he created a special place for them, under the guise that they will harmlessly disappear in 24 hours.

InspectionNews.com does not have those types of posts because Brian does not want, or allow, them. I am referring to the real out-for-blood type of personal attacks, not just a few comments which state the truth, we are talking outright blasphemy lies and exaggerations.

This site, on the other hand, pretty much lets a poster post whatever he or she wants, and it stays there forever (or however long post stay around).

To me, just my opinion, if you are going to allow those types of comments, allow them to stay so everyone can read them, digest them, and respond to them, OR, as at inspectionnews.com, just don't allow them. The truly bad ones are not allowed there. And, yes, some people do not like those rules. Brian is fair, *don't do it, but if you do, keep it low key and, if you started it, suffer your consequences for your transgressions in silence*.

Mike, that is the only problem I have with you, that you say one thing, then allow something else. I trust your forum would be a better place should you decide which (either) way you wanted to go, then allow everyone to either go at it, OR, make them sit down and shut up and be nice to each other.

As evidenced on this board, and other boards, we CAN all be nice. We just ALL (no exceptions) need to be nice each other. Or let the mud sling and don't get mad about it. As soon as one person starts to sling mud, all responses are acceptable (if mud slinging is allowed).

I haven't been to your forum because I know you will treat me differently than the others, that you will be on pins and needles waiting for me to do something, all the while, allowing others to rant and rave and carry on.

Not getting on you Mike, you are a good guy, you just need to be consistent, that's all.

It takes two to argue, come down on both of the parties the same. They both get 15 yard un-sportsmanship penalties, which offset each other, then they both come back into the game, hopefully, they are man enough to come out and shake hands before going at it again.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Joe,


Mike IS generally a good guy, and I keep hoping that he will realize what is going on, and what he is doing.

There are others, that ... well ... I cannot say the same thing about.

To me, you must set some sort of rules for your forum, either 'yes, anything goes' or 'no, we have certain rules', but not 'maybe, depends on who it posting' or 'sometimes they apply'. And if you complain about it someplace else, don't allow it there.

To me, it is just that simple.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Jerry,


I like the idea that you treat everyone the same. Kept me out of trouble in another life.


--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Warning, I’ve had 2 beers (which is a lot for a light weight like me)!


I think Doug Hansen's post was a compliment to NACHI. Furthermore I think Doug Hansen meant it as a compliment. It was also a compliment to the veteran NACHI inspectors who help others. It was a shot at newbie inspectors though. When I first read it I assumed it to be another of example of a long history of NACHI attacks. But after reading it a couple times, I'm not sure. It was a bit ambiguous. I'm giving Doug Hansen the benefit of the doubt.

These guys like Mike O. and Brian H. are control freaks. Psychiatrists will tell you that anyone who starts a message board is a control freak. They just can't stand that there exists some other message board outside of their control where men, real men, can think, say, and feel what they will. It drives them nuts so they try to get me (in the case of this message board) or the government to police them. Forget about it. Control freaks all of them!

Nick

PS This post will be automatically deleted in 24 years.


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Oooops. icon_redface.gif When I said “real men” I meant “real women and men.” Didn’t mean to leave out our great female inspectors.


Beer #3

Nick


Last edited by Brian Hannigan. Certain portions deleted.


Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Mike O,


As to your initial response to Joe B, the fact is that many of the really "experienced" inspectors can feel the competition from the newer guys, and dont like it.

With the economy the way it is, many folks are trying to re-invent themselves. Many become realtors, and are in and out of that profession before their license needs to be renewed. Some think that they can become inspectors overnight, and quickly discover that they dont have the knowledge, communication skills, or stomach for this business.

With that said, there are also a number of "newbies" entering the profession, who by way of life experience, can quickly perform as well on an inspection as the guy with 20-years of experience. He11, some can probably "teach" some seasoned inspectors a thing or two. Face it, home inspectors do not require degrees in quantum physics.

So, here are the experienced "trailblazers" who see up and comers. What do some of them do to cull the growing herd? They invent the need for legislation. They invent "peer review". They develop "thresholds" which must be met. All in an industry which tries to disclaim everything. You compare what we do as HIs to a resident or intern in a hospital. Are you for real? Have we diluted ourselves to believing that what an HI does COMPARES to the responsibilities of a doctor? Give me a break. Poor analogy...

So, should I respect my "elders" in this profession. That depends... Do they respect MY life experience? Do they recognize my 20-years of experience in contract law, construction, electricity, plumbing, excavation, HVAC, carpentry, etc. Oh, I forgot, what I did was NOT as a dedicated home inspector. So, therefore, it doesnt count. I havent reached the "magic" threshold of 250 "fee-paid" inspections. Tell me, if I receive a ham sandwich for performing a home inspection, was I paid?

If someone wants respect, they must also give it. I dont see this with a lot of folks in this industry. Many feel they are above code officials, RAs, and PEs. Many despise new HIs. As to Doug Hansen's comments, I'm not sure how to take them. I didn't see it as a direct swipe at NACHI, per se. But, hey, what do I know?

As to Joe B's comments; what do you care? I mean, so what? Whether Joe is angry all the time and spews venom, is besides the point. This is how NACHI chooses to allow its board to operate. You doint approve of it in your own forum, that's fine. Look at where this board was a year ago, and compare it to todays stats. Its mind boggling.

As to our professionalism as an organization, the truth is that there are MANY visitors to this site. ANyone who asks a legitimate question or needs help, generally receives it. THAT is the mark of a professional. One who doesn't feel threatened.

And BTW, many of the NACHI bashers and detractors are the "trailblazer" types you mentioned. Many of these "old timers" cant stand it that NACHI has grown so fast. They try their best to convince folks (including some legislators) that we are a sham, or somehow harbor inexperienced and incompetent inspectors. They trivialize our entrance exam, our COE, and SOP. They attack our Executive Director. They try and shut-out NACHI inspectors. And for WHAT?

They need to remember that the door swings both ways, and it doesn't feel so good when that door swings back and knocks you on your a$$. Liik at Kentucky and KREIA. They dont accept NACHIs COE yet. I guess it takes a committee to read through the few pages we have, whether in an ugly format or not, to figure out that we pretty much state what the other orgs say in THEIR SOPs. We have to PRESENT it in the correct format, for fear of looking unprofessional? What a laugh. Yeah, presentation counts for more than content, I guess. F-'em, I say.

One last thing... a question, really. What does your motto "One Team, One Fight" mean? I mean, what's the "fight" all about?


--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

Originally Posted By: mpatton
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



JOe,


Check out the last post (12/13) I made pertaining to the KREIA comments. http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=1654&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25

Just as a friendly reminder KREIA has just been approached about this and in all fairness have not responded yet. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


--
Michael Patton
AA Home Inspection
Serving Northern KY & Greater Cincinnati OH

AA@AAHomeInspection.net
www.AAHomeInspection.net