Continued from the closed canadian section

Thank you Claude for giving me the opportunity to address some of your misgivings and misinformation. I will do so in RED below:

Please tell me why invoving the real estate industry or CMHC is a bad thing.
Nobody mentioned the C.M.H.C. and it is interesting that you threw them into the discussion. That is a straw man argument at best. If you cannot understand why involving the real estate industry in making decisions for us about our industry is a very bad idea, I will do my best to explain. Involving the very people who would have a vested interest in legislating ‘soft inspections’ puts at least Realtors and probably all of us in a compromising position that probably verges on conflict of interest. In terms you might be more comfortable with, it would be like allowing students to review and make decisions on a teacher’s performance and responsibilities. Not a good idea.

The vast majority of work in this H.I. sector is through a real estate contact. That does not necessarily equate to being married to them. Can partnering with CMHC and ACBOA, FNNBOA and CSC be a detriment - afterall they are all recognized and sanctioned as credible bodies.

**Only you seem to be concerned. But it is interesting that as you try to deflect you have removed the Realtors from the equation. Not one of the organizations you mentioned stands to make money from ‘soft inspections’. **

What is the difference between licensing and union control of the H.I. industry?
**There is absolutely no difference for our purposes here. That is why the ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS negotiated a ‘purchase of service’ agreement with the Teamsters which allows our members to access their vast resources, their professional education department, 27 paid professional lobbyists who know and see the decision makers in government , the discounts in everything from insurance to tools and the support of 130,000 members of CANADA’S most powerful union. All that and more without being forced to be a member of ANY union. The people who will control our industry will be every day working Home Inspectors: no elites, no ‘industry leaders’, no good old boys. **

So while you try to cast this in terms of “the big bad union taking over our industry”, clearly the union has no involvement other than through their commitments to provide their services to ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS members. Nice try though:D!

Although there are claims about the demise of the NCH being absorbed into the provicial cAHPI chapters, it does not necessarily spell the end of the National Certification Program.

**With the disgusting disappearance of 4.5 million of our hard earned tax dollars as reported elsewhere, the writing is on the wall. I have already been called by two press sources who want to ask and have answered some very difficult questions. It is dead Claude. The question now is, as CAPHI received millions of dollars to develop the failed national, and that designation now has a value, when will this new group that has been cobbled together from a lot of the same people who put CAPHI together, actually pay for that programme. As a tax payer I want to see as much of those missing millions recovered as possible. **

The ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS is proud to say that we have no connection to this revolting mess and that has been made quite clear to the press.

To borrow your line - we are not recruiting, we are informing that there are alternatives that include a rigid certification and accreditation process- hence the need for the NHICC (National Home Inspector Certification Council). We may not be perfect, but than again tell me which one of the many is perfect?
Nobody is arguing that any of us are perfect. However, the old associations and the old faces connected with them have had almost 20 years and reportedly millions of dollars to get this right and in the end the NCA collapsed and took all that money and all the dues and fees with it. The industry over which these people ruled for so long is in chaos and that situation gets worse every day. No, they have had their chance and more of the same is not good enough.

**Perfection is not an issue here. Accountability is. **

It is time for a new generation to take the reins and guide this industry in a new, inclusive direction. The last thing we need is a retreaded organization that excludes inspectors and uses their tax dollars to do it . . . . again. The sun is setting on the old ways. This time inspectors will actually be consulted and will make the decisions that affect their futures and their industry.

BTW for clarification: The NHICC is a non-profit certification body, not just another H.I. asociation with a drive to gain members. The fees are structured to cover certification costs, not the gain of others.
We have heard it all before Claude. We were told that the NCA was self supporting ( except for the reported 4.5 million dollars of course). We were told that the NCA would sign up 5000 inspectors. We were told that it would bury all the other association including the one that is gracious enough to host this conversation. We don’t need inflated claims and hyperbole anymore.

Facts and fact finding should not be viewed as veiled threats, anymore than the government deciding at some time in the near future to license home inspectors, whether we like it or not. Do you want a say in it or not? (Alberta, Quebec and even Nova Scotia are on the watch list.) Like BC - who will be looking out for you?

Canadian Inspectors want and deserve more than the old letter writing campaigns, calls to M.P.'s offices and coffee with obscure Realtors ( or even the claimed 4000 of them :roll::smiley: ). With 27 paid professional lobbyists at work in the halls of government, the ability to hold meetings, present education, and represent the membership in any community in CANADA with the full support of a 130,000 member strong organization it is pretty obvious that everyday inspectors have found their voice. It is equally obvious that government will be listening. In fact, they already are!

Hope this helped
Join us at:

Thanks your feedback and comments, all the best Claude

As noted, I do belong to a union, and pay dues, but lets face reality - not everyone will buy into the “union” concept. Its all about choices, so do not confuse my comments as “anti-union”. Just based on the fact some do not agree with “unionizing” the home inspection has anything to do with “professionalizing” the home inspection sector in Canada.

As I explained elsewhere, the ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS has negotiated a 'PURCHASE OF SERVICE" type agreement with the Teamsters that allows our members to have access to their substantial resources including 27 paid professional lobbyists, professionally prepared and presented education, special pricing on goods and services, reduced insurance rates, and the full support of a 130,000 member union. All without becoming union members. You see Claude, unlike those ‘industry leaders’ who have come and gone, we have listened to Inspectors and we recognized the fact that they did not want to be unionized. So the ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS brings the best of both worlds to the Home Inspection industry: the freedom of being an independent businessman with the strength, influence, and resources of a 130,000 member organization. I know that you and others want desperately to couch this in other terms but you can’t.

I am not afraid of accountability, and I agree accountability is a key element, but dumbing down and believing only that experience equates to quality and credibility - must be questioned. Consumers of our services deserve - accountability, quality and a professional level and consistent standard of our product.

It is unfortunate that you have joined those who have chosen to show their disdain for Canadian Home Inspectors by claiming that ‘grandfathering’ is equal to ‘dumbing down’ of the industry. One of the many reasons that the NCA and others failed is because they were exclusionary. Rather than bringing in as many inspectors as possible and letting them grow and build their knowledge base, these programmes chose to divide the industry into those who had been chosen and those who never would. This elitism, this exclusion of the very people who should have been consulted in the formation of any programme was the reason for the failure. Inspectors with years of service were told that they had no value and must submit to artificial standards set down by the self appointed. New inspectors were bled white with dues and fees and charges and frustrated with impossible requirements and impossible costs.

I know that you and others want to make an issue of the grandfathering period requirements and the apparent ease of entry. But Claude, what have all your so called superior requirements produced? They have divided the industry into two groups: the tiny minority who joined your club and the vast majority who did not. The ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS is welcoming all practicing Home Inspectors with the one year requirements of two years of inspection business experience and 20 completed inspections so that ALL inspectors can feel that they finally have a home and a place to build their knowledge base. Through yearly requirements of courses and lectures, all provided for FREE, our members will do exactly that.

So what is better Claude: a few fellows who have attained the certification levels set by a few self appointed ’ industry leaders’ or a majority of experienced and inexperienced inspectors working to improve themselves at a cost they can afford? If the C.C.I.H.I.F.D.C.C. (as they are probably known today) or any of the other associations were truly concerned with the welfare, the education and the success of their members wouldn’t they have tried to attract as many members as possible and then made it as easy and affordable to learn and grow as possible?

That is the ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS in a nutshell. We are about member service, member success, member education, member representation and member improvement. It is little wonder that all the old elites are so frightened. It is a new day for Canadian Inspectors and a new philosophy of achievement and success that is so alien to the old school of Home Inspector associations.

Join us at](

I would suggests that BPCPA (in Canada) has set the benchmark for what is required and recognized as the industry standard. Yes, it may be only a beginning with respect to licensing, but than again, others (provincial governments) are also looking to a very similar acceptance model.

Tell me the difference between grandfathering and background review? My quick comment - grandfathering is a given automatic acceptance such as you claim to be a home inspector and performed 20 home inspections, versus - substantiation and documentation to provide a more formal proof of an individual’s background. So your claim is a mute point!

Which one hold up to rigor and accountability to the public/consumers?

Its not an issue at all, it’s a difference in either raising or lowering the bar for professionalizing the home inspection sector.

Claude, the grandfathering requirement of two years / twenty inspections requires verification in the form of documentation.

Again, the point is that it is better to have a majority of inspectors as members who are striving to improve themselves than to have a majority of inspectors excluded and not improving themselves. Surely you can understand that?

Canadian inspectors do not need another organization telling them they are not good enough. The ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS is telling them that they can be. It is the difference between the old exclusionary negative attitude of the old guard and the positive welcoming attitude of the new. The tiny minority of Canadian Inspectors who bought into the now failed NCA is a clear demonstration that the old ways do not work.

You can claim to be raising the bar by excluding good people because they do not live up to your arbitrary requirements all you want. But when the vast majority of Canadian inspectors have rejected your arbitrary requirements and refused to jump over you artificial bar, what have you gained? I submit you have gained nothing at all and in fact have only further fractured the industry and that is loss for all of us.

We at the A.C.H.I. understand why, with our offer of FREE education to our members we might have ruffled a few feathers from those organizations and individuals who, over the years have made a lot of money from unsuspecting ‘newbees’ by providing education of questionable value. We can understand why those who make their living at the community college level may fear that their courses may not be accepted and accredited ( these courses can be submitted for review of course). But the primary concern should be for the welfare and benefit of Canadian Inspectors. It is unfortunate that this is such a new concept.

The ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS welcomes all inspectors and for the next year will accept any inspector who has worked for two years and completed 20 inspections ( with documentation) as members in good standing. The A.C.H.I. will assist our members to grow their knowledge base with **FREE **education and improve their business with courses, lectures and other opportunities.


NCH only offers one designation, there is no where to grow within your group. You either have the education, time in, and inspections completed or your not going to get in.

the associations have student, associate, and CMHI, RHI designations, which allows anyone to join get educated, mentored, along the way.
If you have to be on the 8th rung of the ladder to join your group YOU have set the entrance requirement to minimize anyone and everyone under your minimum. This was your choice.
The way I see this grandfathering is a simple idea, get everyone on the same path teach, train and educate them and sooner or later they will all be at the 8th rung. From there they (inspectors) have options to join the NCH group or continue with the association that took them in , educated them, mentored them, and helped them along.

If your only looking for the inferred top to be members then you have an eliteisim club, THIS should not be confused as a standard by which all need to be measured by. Standards are what the masses can accomplish in a set time at a certin level of education, experience, reporting.

something to mull over in your spare time Claude.

[FONT=Times New Roman][size=3]In about 1950 They grandfathered all electricians My two brothers where part of it . [/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][size=3]I started an apprentice in 1951 .
My brothers where a big help to me and where great electricians .
The system worked great .
In about 1957 They did the same with auto mechanics .
That also worked great .
They slowly worked their way through many of the construction Trades from Lathers Tin knockers steam fitters ,Plumbers ect.
It worked well back then why does any one think that Home Inspectors should not do it.
Past experience has shown how well it went .

Fortunately we back then did not have any self appointed experts to tell us it was wrong and would never work .

First the NCH is not a designation. It is a regonized and validated certification “standard”. The inspector either meets the expected standard, or they do not. They can work towards achieving the "national standard’.

The NCH may or may not belong to a home inspection association. Home inspection associations most often provide a designation - CHI, RHI, PHPI, etc. The NCH had members that belonged to various associations, and some that belonged to none.

Is membership in an association a pre-requisite to be a successful inspector?

The real issue is who decides at what level to certify an individual, and what body does it? In the majority of every case - it is the individual home inspection association.

Is there an opportunity for some home inspection associations to misuses or abuse their powers. Well I believe most of us (at least) that have been around for awhile have been there - done that , and seen what happens. It is a common thread in many of the forum discussions.

Grandfathering was not a bad thing, but like the 50’s new standards and better training are part of the education system. Respectfully even apprenticeship is a combination of in class education and on the job training.

Thats why mentoring is so important .
Unfortunatly this has not happened with the previous associations.
I was mentored and most inspectors who do get mentored succed at this industry .
I have been told 90% of the untrained home Inspectors do not last in this industry.

There have been so many inspection associations that have come and gone in Canada, I’ve lost track. And everyone has their own thinking as to why each has failed and InterNACHI continues to thrive. Here is my advice: The way for the next Canadian association to succeed, and I mean really succeed (not just by cheating using some exclusionary legislation)… would be to never, ever, ever, ever use the word “recognized” again and don’t ever go out of your way to procure it. It’s a sissy word that smacks of insecurity. Makes you sound like a bunch of 13-year old girls worrying if the 8th grade boys are going to “recognize” your new hair style.

Build an association that has great business success tools, numerous free benefits, and lots of robust education, then keep piling it on, day after day after day… and believe me… everyone will “recognize” you. They’ll recognize that you are kicking @S$!!! … and that is the only “recognition” that counts.

Thank you Bill, Roy and Nick. I think you’ve got it! That is the model that the ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS is built on. ( Only up here in CANADA, Nick, we kick bottoms, and only after a stern lecture and pointed letter!):D:D

If I lived in Canada I would join, Unions have a way of getting prices for services where they should be without Racketeering, or I think they have—:smiley:

this is confusing…it’s easy to get lost with all these association. I’m a ‘‘new’’ comer (working as a HI since February) and i never get referrals from agent but i do get a lot of referrals from past clients. the only association I’m with, is Nachi.

If Nachi could do something about the insurance costs in Quebec, i would be soooooo happy but it’s not the case.

One thing i found out is the clients don’t care about witch association you’re in or how many certifications you have, all they want is a top notch service.

to give that service you need:
-Education : this association is the best place for it.
and to succeed you need:
-Visibility : You need to force your way out there. (not all of the marketing strategies work, but there is a few out there that worked for me)

I am not sure the an association will get you more work. I believe that the reflection of work work will. Nachi has all the tools you need, the rest is really up to you IMO.

Last week i inspected a home that was previously inspected (about 1 month before) by a AIBQ inspector. what he found was : a missing door knob, one loose cabinet door and the deck’s railing was loose. what I found : electrical problems (6 double taps in panel), no p-trap under any sink, grading was toward the foundation and a lot more stuff…). the owner of the house was not happy (we compared reports after the inspection) my client on the other hand felt that the best thing he did this week was hiring me, he gave me a $100.00 tip.

You see, it’s not the association your with, it’s the service you provide, (well in my case it is, and so far I’m doing quit well

But please, if any of you guys has positive points (other than a union) to why any of us should join another association , please share with me because i don’t see it (loll)

Welcome to the real world Patrick.
Sit back enjoy and do as you are doing.
I frequently have the same experience as you with some inspectors.
All associations have some less then perfect inspections .
The best we can do is hope that we continue to improve communications
and to hope things soon balance out.

Hi Patrick

That is the basic question isn’t it? “Why join a Canadian association when this one is so good?”

Nobody is better at providing the kinds of member services that Nick provides to the members of I.N.A.C.H.I. NOBODY. That is why, when we constructed the ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS we took I.N.A.C.H.I. as our model. We asked Nick for advice and took it. The A.C.H.I. is never going to replace this organization, after all there are three hundred million people in the United States and we have somewhat fewer north of the border!

But what the ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS can provide that Nick does not, is education tailored for CANADIAN homes where many of our requirements are quite different from American codes, FREE educational opportunities presented across the country and prepared for CANADIAN inspectors, lower prices on CANADIAN goods and services, representation in the halls of government by paid professional lobbyists who know who to talk to to get things done ( no more letter writing campaigns, coffee with the local M.P. or " high level meetings") and the power and support of a 130,000 member union to make sure that Canadian Inspectors have a voice and that the voice is heard.

There is no question of joining a union. We have negotiated a “purchase of service” type agreement with the union that allows our members to access all the benefits of being members of the union without actually being a member. We have the best of both worlds: we are independent businessmen and at the same time enjoy the benefits normally reserved for an association with a 130,000 members.

I will refer you to the document “DID YOU KNOW?” from the ALLIANCE of CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS web site:

Did you know that your membership in the ALLIANCE OF CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS entitles you to;

FREE EDUCATION**. **That’s right! A.C.H.I. provides all members with free educational opportunities. All Alliance courses are free to members and presented at convenient locations at convenient times.

Why? Because your ALLIANCE OF CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS believes it is most important to provide members with the opportunity to upgrade themselves at a cost that all members can afford. FREE !

SPEAK AND BE HEARD! Membership in the ALLIANCE OF CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS gives all members through their ALLIANCE, access to the Teamster Professional Lobbyists. For the first time Canadian members will have a voice in the halls of government that will be heard. With the backing of 1.7 million affiliated Teamsters, and their professional lobbyists, Alliance members will be recognized and regarded.

SLEEP AT NIGHT! With the strength of numbers the ALLIANCE will negotiate lower insurance costs for members so all members, should they wish, will be able to afford Errors and Omissions insurance, liability insurance and reduced rates on many other types of insurance.

MEMBERS WILL NOT STAND ALONE. If the need arises, the ALLIANCE will provide members with legal consultations so that no member need face legal issues without expert advice. A percentage of membership dues will be put aside to build a ‘war chest’ to finance the legal defense of members. Through a “Legal DEFENSE” committee members will be able to request that the ALLIANCE supply advice and in certain cases, representation. The legal DEFENSE committee will assess each request and assign a ‘para-legal’ councilor for a consultation. The legal DEFENSE committee will decide when a case has ‘national’ importance and would effect all members / the industry and may then, participate through the courts.

IT COULDN’T HAPPEN TO YOU? The Alliance in conjunction with the Teamsters will make health and disability programmes available to members. With the strength of numbers from the alliance with the Teamsters of Canada, members need not risk their health or financial futures to accident of ill health.

BUYING POWER. With the strength of numbers the Alliance has already negotiated lower costs for goods and services for members. Ever wanted to know what it felt like to have ‘buying power’? Members do!

EVERYBODY WELCOME! For a period of one year after the initial launch all practicing home inspectors who have successfully operated for a period of one year and completed 20 home inspections ( subject to verification) will be welcomed into the Alliance as members. Once inside the “big tent” members, regardless of their experience or training will be able to take advantage of the FREE EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES to upgrade their skills and improve themselves and the industry.

IT’S OFFICIAL! All written or oral examinations administered upon completion of courses offered by the Alliance will be proctored at union halls throughout the country as required. Members who attend a course will get credit. Make it count.

NEED A WEB SITE? Professional web design at reduced costs will be made available to all members. It is the 21’st century and every serious Home Inspector needs a web presence in the form of a modern, technically cutting edge web site. The same team that is providing the ALLIANCE web site will design a “killer” site for members at reduced cost. Seeing is believing!

SELL, SELL, SELL! One of the hardest parts of establishing and maintaining a Home Inspection business is marketing it. Let’s be honest, most inspectors are great technicians but lowsy marketers. So the Alliance will provide marketing advice and resources to all members. Through courses, resource materials and professional consultations every member will be able to craft a marketing campaign to success.

CALL AND ASK A FELLOW INSPECTOR No inspector works alone. Every member will be able to call experienced fellow inspectors when they encounter the unknown in the field. Help, advice and assistance are just a call away.

DON’T MISS THE BIG SHOW! As membership builds and the ALLIANCE web site develops courses will be available to all members over the net. Study from the comfort of your own easy chair and improve your knowledge of our industry. Credit for these courses will be contingent upon the completion of a proctored exam.

NO FREE LUNCH. Not one penny of tax payers money was used in the construction of the ALLIANCE OF CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS INC. Your ALLIANCE is beholden to no one. With the strength of numbers provided by our association with the TEAMSTERS of Canada, your ALLIANCE is already at work in the halls of government across Canada working to win the recognition that ALLIANCE members deserve.

“BOOK LEARNIN’ AIN’T ENOUGH!” The one thing that all the classroom courses cannot provide is hands on experience. Without actual in-field experience a newly graduated Inspector lacks the most valuable part of his education. New members will be mentored by experienced inspectors in the field during actual inspections. Their performance will be assessed and areas of improvement suggested. Doing is the best way of learning. And the years of acquired knowledge and experience of our senior members will be available to our newest members through mentoring and apprenticeship programmes now under development.

THE MOST IMPORTANT PART Every member is encouraged to help build and operated the Alliance. There is no elite. There are no industry leaders, and no good old boys. This association was established by inspectors just like you; will be grown by inspectors just like you; and will be operated by inspectors just like you.

Join your ALLIANCE OF CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS as together Canadian Home Inspectors build the future they deserve through an ALLIANCE that works for them. And watch as this list of services and benefits grows and changes as ALLIANCE OF CANADIAN HOME INSPECTORS members grow their own ALLIANCE.


Patrick, from my POV, part of the issue with higher pricing on E&O insurance is likely based on the past track record of claims against inspectors.

Earlier studies indicated that Quebec had the highest claim rate. Additionally, there are differences in the “law” that would place a higher level of risk on inspectors. Certainly the claim amount and balance of probability of defending the claim also is part of the cost that is considered.

Patrick & Claude ,If you give us any of these claims.
I would love to read about them .
I do not think we get enough of these to read so we can see what was missed and try and make sure we do not do the same thing .
Thanks Roy

1-How about us in Quebec? would we have the same benefits as the rest of Canada??

2-i would have to take all of the courses (like here) for the third time??? are killing me(loll)…could i just transfer my credits??

Just an idea
why don’t we take the ‘‘alliance’’ and build the biggest home inspection firm in the country, and completely dominating everything from home inspection to energy audits
think about it, if we pay $100.00 (or so) more each per year (membership) can you imagine the media impact we would have…can you imagine what we could do if we all got together (under one name but all independent) creating 1 entity (like i said, clients don’t care about associations or know about nachi, ashi and so on…but they all know what is Bombardier…one of the leaders in aerospace)…

there is no ‘‘leaders’’ in home inspection, why don’t we change that?

like i said, just an idea

Patrick - some have already done that. They are called National Building Inspectors and Experts Association.

Not a plug - just responding to your post. Once a part of AIBQ and supporter of the National Program. Contact: Gerald Smith

Why retake courses? Have you consider a “background” review system?

BTW: there are already lots of free courses available, online. The NACHI education committee developed one years ago, and INACHI has just as many, if not more. They all have “some” value.

Is it true that municipal building inspections in Quebec are few and far between, thus adding an extra level of risk on the expections of consumers on home inspectors?


A few years ago, I tried to get “pay per inspection” for InterNACHI members in Canada through a Vancouver broker, but that fell through as Lloyd’s of London wanted too much claim experience and it was difficult to obtain it from all members. *At least we tried! *

It is very tough for a new inspector and the costs are rather high, especially if you deal with one particular insurance broker!. HUB Insurance seems to have the best rates around, in my view (905-847-5500 talk to Kim Smith).

As far as ANIEB are concerned, they seem to be a rehach of another group headed by Gerald Smith and Raymond Lussier (CEAB). ANIEB, even if their scope is “national”, currently have no members outside Québec and if you take a look at both websites, a lot of the same faces appear. This is not a comment pro or con but a statement of my observations.

Gilles R. Larin