Florida home inspection law includes mold regulation.

Originally Posted By: jmertins
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]


So let me get this straight. First of all I am not a member of FABI(disclaimer) Someday will most likely be.

The leadership of FABI without conferring, hearing, asking, or anything decided/lobbied that the Mold bill should be attached to HB315 w/o reasonable input from the people he represents, namely his co-inspectors? Or was he representing the consumer on this?


--
John Mertins

Baxter Home Inspections, Inc.

"Greatness courts failure"

Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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dedwards wrote:
There was a rush right at the end of the Senate's dealing with the bill where they crammed all kinds of stupid items into the bill. Some got withdrawn and others made it in. Unfortunately the Mold amendment probably "sounded good" to the legislators.


According to Hooper:

Quote:
"Jeff G. Hooper
Member

Posts: 415
From:Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Registered: Jan 2005

SB 1830 passed today. Third reading. Off to the house for a final brief stop and then to Jeb Bush.

The mold deal, so you guys know, is not part of our bill. It is part of the contractors licensing bill that was having trouble. The FHBA and Wayne B. their lobbyist, asked if they could train it onto our bill since it appeared we were going to pass. Our Senate sponsor graciously agreed. We had no problem with that.

Jeff"


Personally, I believe that Hooper is always giving himself much more credit than he deserves for things. This could be bunk, too.


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: jmertins
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But did it ever cross anyones mind; “Wow this could be a 900 lbs monkey and could effect alot of HI’s?”



John Mertins


Baxter Home Inspections, Inc.

"Greatness courts failure"

Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



John,


I think it would be prudent for every Florida home inspector to remain cognizant of the fact that Hooper has stated, for the record, that he will do everything in his power to rid Florida of NACHI. Ridding Florida of all non-FABI home inspectors must be running a close second.

People like this are harmless when you know they are there and you deal with them, but never turn your back on them or let them act autonomously. Perhaps if enough NACHI members made it a point to join FABI, you could then build a mandate and rid Florida of the Hoopers.


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: jmertins
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Slight thread drift… 2 years ago I began to join FABI. Filled out the paper work, sent it in, sent the check, got a letter back with my wrong name on it, check not cashed, and a message to please call to set up test. O.K. Called to clear up name mistake, ask for correct amount of check, and schedule test. I make appt for test in Orlando…go to test…no one there!?


Return to car, call.... no answer. Return home, call...., no answer...leave messages, no call back.

At that time I was almost within the range of qualifying for their membership requirements and wanted a leg up to be at their level.

Sorry for the drift.


--
John Mertins

Baxter Home Inspections, Inc.

"Greatness courts failure"

Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy

Originally Posted By: jburkeson
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Deleted… icon_biggrin.gif



Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)


?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Originally Posted By: hgordon
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deleted by me**



Harvey Gordon


SE Florida NACHI Chapter - President


hgordon@fl.nachi.org


Originally Posted By: mark finnerty
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Just to clarify a few things.


1. I am opposed to the bill as passed. My opposition is related to the mold section and the exemptions it contains. I will list them below.

2. I am looking for your help and support in killing this bill. Write Jeb and ask him to veto it. call your mama,your barber, your cousin, your landscaper, and the kid at taco bell down the street and ask them to do the same.

3.The Statement made today, to me by Jeff Hooper, regarding the mold language being moved to chapter 489 is incorrect. The mold section of the bill has three parts. Contracting mold remediation, assessment, and non-contracting remediation (NCMR). The only section that will fall under 489 is the section on contracting mold remediation. The sections on assessment and NCMR are new additions to FS 501 just like the HI regulation. It will affect your business if you presently perform mold test just to determine the presence of mold.

Just to give you an idea of how ridiculous this law is look at the groups that are exempt this means they can do whatever they want regarding mold contamination regardless of the size or scope of the contamination.

Division 1 Contractors- As written licensed contractors will be free to perform mold assessments, develop remediation strategies or write protocols. They can then perform the work that they have specified, if they specified any at all. They will also be able to determine when the work they decided to do is complete and satisfactory.
They will be able to do this with no additional training and in accordance will no industry standard, or government guidelines now in place.

Landlords or Property managers and their employees- This group is particularly disturbing due to the fact the many of the people living in rented condos, houses and apartments are often forced by economic circumstances to live in buildings that have chronic maintenance issues to begin with and many landlords simply ignore the problems already. There is no reason to expect that this pattern will change once they are officially exempt from the new regulation.

Division 2 Contractors- This includes most of the building trades. This would mean that a plumber, electrician or air conditioning technician that encounters a significant mold contamination during the normal course of his work can ignore it. He could then continue ripping out drywall that is completely covered in mold to find a broken pipe, or continue to clean a heavily mold contaminated duct system. These actions can cause significant contamination of previously unaffected areas.

Insurance Adjusters- The bill completely exempts an insurance adjustor from regulation. This would mean that an insurance adjustor could make an assessment of a mold-contaminated residence and determine that there is no need to remediate the mold. They will not need any additional training to make these assessments. We believe this represents a clear conflict of interest.

Engineers, Architects and Interior Designers- As far as we know these groups have no specific training in the field of microbiology or proper remediation procedures. It seems these groups would have no base of knowledge to form an opinion regarding mold in the built environment. Yet according to the law these ?professions? are able to perform mold assessments, develop remediation strategies or write protocols. They can then perform the work that they have specified, if they specified any at all. They will also be able to determine when the work they decided to do is complete and satisfactory. They will be able to do this with no additional training and in accordance will no industry standard, or government guidelines now in place.

Mobile home dealers

Janitorial and maintenance personnel in schools or any other local, state or federal building



--
Mark Finnerty
www.badmoldlaw.com
850-259-1288

Originally Posted By: jbushart
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mark finnerty wrote:
The Statement made today, to me by Jeff Hooper, regarding the mold language being moved to chapter 489 is incorrect. ]


Mark,

I am sorry, but I cannot accept that my dear friend, Jeffy Hooper, does not know everything about everything. Ask him, yourself, if you don't believe me.

Jeffy would never say anything that was not 100% true, 100% accurate, and 75% misspelled. ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: gporter
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I wrote Toni Jennings and Jeb a letter stating my thoughts on why the bill should die.



Gary Porter


GLP’s Home and Mold Inspections LLC


Orlando, Fl 32828


321-239-0621


www.homeandmoldinspections.com

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



gporter wrote:
I wrote Toni Jennings and Jeb a letter stating my thoughts on why the bill should die.


Is there any chance that one or both of the two congressmen who voted against it can help you get an audience with the Governor?


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: jmertins
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Those were a few more of Jeff Hoopers thoughts.


Did we miss the verbiage right in front of our face or are we going to be counted? Is he turning his back on the tests passed and taken at ITA, AHIT, INSPECTION DEPOT? Funny things is what if you want to be a independent inspector and not belong to any Assoc. however ,the state will now say you must pay one of these Assoc. to take their test??


--
John Mertins

Baxter Home Inspections, Inc.

"Greatness courts failure"

Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



jmertins wrote:
"As far as the FABI test. The key word in the bills about testing is the word "VALID". The FABI test, ASHI, NAHI, TREC and CREA are valid test. The test needs to be sourced and proctored. Sorry NACHI, but you have some work to do, as I asked you to do 5 months ago."


Those were a few more of Jeff Hoopers thoughts.


Did we miss the verbiage right in front of our face or are we going to be counted?


This is a hooperism, for right now. The state has not given any ruling, other than an unofficial staff member passing on that he feels the NACHI test will be included. Don't count Hooper out, yet. He is still working on eliminating our test from consideration, along with a few others.


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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to offer psychometrically valid exams (EBPHI & NACHI) and I stand ready to demonstrate that the NHIE is not valid for many reasons. Of the two, EBPHI offers only old-style, 2 version, proctored options. NACHI offers both proctored and unproctored, although we require passing an unproctored version as one of the requirements of http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm


The term NACHI's exam makes little sense. NACHI has no exam. It has an endless number of them. From the begining we built our system to be everything and anything anyone could ever want or need. Its built- in intelligence recognizes taker weakness, tracks pass-fail rate for each question and publishes that data while you take the exam, produces billions of versions all somewhat different, can be adjusted for everything including geographic bias (less questions about oil fired boilers in FL for example), can be proctored by third parties from any computer that is online (not just at testing centers). It can even be proctored at Chapter meetings if a chapter wanted to. Furthermore, because tens of thousands have taken versions of it, NACHI now possess more data on home inspection test questions, question by question, than all other sources combined and then some. Read http://www.nachi.org/aboutexam.htm The NHIE can never be psychometrically valid due to its core fatal psychometric flaw (Noel Zak of EBPHI admitted in court under oath that their entire pool of questions were submitted by inspectors who have something pertinent in common). I was in the courtroom myself when she confessed. And other flaws (after their question pool was found for sale on ebay, it tried on at least one occassion to increase difficulty by adding questions outside the scope of a home inspection). Anyone, like me, who has taken the NHIE knows what I'm talking about. Anyway, the first flaw was dumb but the second one is dumber than dumb and warned against by every expert in the testing field. It was equivalent to a school teacher, after discovering that someone passed out a vocabulary cheat sheet, deciding to grade the students in vocabulary on the basis of algebra problems. Anyway, it is about as bad as bad gets. I realize it was, for a while, the only choice some states had, but donkeys have been replaced by the automobiles too.

Creating a valid exam, though difficult technically, isn't rocket surgery. It is quite a straight forward series of steps. I recommend the following book: Standards for Educational adn Psychological Testing put out by the American Educational Research Association, The American Psychological Association, and the National Council on Measurement in Education. And so the state of FL could easily create their own (like TX did) using data NACHI would be happy to supply.

The real problem (with regard to consumers) is threefold:

1. Exams, even good ones, are horrible predictors of competency in this industry. Like construction... this is a very hands-on business. Good exam takers are often horrible inspectors. Thinking exams weed out competent from incompetent hurts consumers.

2. Proctoring strengthens one link in a chain, which is silly. No one proctors one's attention span in a continuing education class. No one even prohibits a licensed inspector from hiring a blind assistant to do 90% of the inspection for him while he drinks coffee. This thinking that mere proctoring somehow protects consumers is giving proctoring credit it doesn't deserve and hurts consumers.

3. Good home inspectors go out of business much more often from failure to market their good services properly, than due to not having $15 to buy the NHIE answers. The consumer suffers regardless of why the good inspector is no longer available, but poor marketing on the part of a good home inspector...hurts consumers.


In summary, consumers are hurt by attributing much undue credit to exams and/or proctoring when in fact they mean almost nothing. And consumers are also hurt when good inspectors fail to market themselves strong enough to earn a nice living, be able to afford nice equipment, be able to afford continuing education (and the time off to take it) and be able keep themselves and ther good works, available to consumers.

Want to help consumers? Market stronger so you can charge them more so you can stay in business longer so they can benefit from your services.


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: rbennett
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Good thoughts


I hope people take time to read your words

RLB


Originally Posted By: hgordon
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Bravo!



Harvey Gordon


SE Florida NACHI Chapter - President


hgordon@fl.nachi.org


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all,


Here is the link to the ammended bill as passed by the House and Senate:

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/loadDoc.aspx?FileName=_h0315e2.doc&DocumentENGINE=Bill&amp DEFAULT CHARSET=latin1;BillNumber=0315&Session=2005

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I’ve taken every inspection related exam at least once. You know which one was the hardest? HouseMaster’s NIBI exam. Jeeze, I never sweated so much. It is really hard.



Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



gromicko wrote:

The real problem (with regard to consumers) is threefold:

1. Exams, even good ones, are horrible predictors of competency in this industry. Like construction... this is a very hands-on business. Good exam takers are often horrible inspectors. Thinking exams weed out competent from incompetent hurts consumers.

2. Proctoring strengthens one link in a chain, which is silly. No one proctors one's attention span in a continuing education class. No one even prohibits a licensed inspector from hiring a blind assistant to do 90% of the inspection for him while he drinks coffee. This thinking that mere proctoring somehow protects consumers is giving proctoring credit it doesn't deserve and hurts consumers.

3. Good home inspectors go out of business much more often from failure to market their good services properly, than due to not having $15 to buy the NHIE answers. The consumer suffers regardless of why the good inspector is no longer available, but poor marketing on the part of a good home inspector...hurts consumers.


In summary, consumers are hurt by attributing much undue credit to exams and/or proctoring when in fact they mean almost nothing. And consumers are also hurt when good inspectors fail to market themselves strong enough to earn a nice living, be able to afford nice equipment, be able to afford continuing education (and the time off to take it) and be able keep themselves and ther good works, available to consumers.

Want to help consumers? Market stronger so you can charge them more so you can stay in business longer so they can benefit from your services.


NACHI needs to build a position statement around these principles.


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: rzimmerman1
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Question


Line 285 of the bill (sorry, could not copy and paste the lines) says


An employee of a licensee who performs mold assessment while directly supervised by the mold assessor.


Does this leave a hole to operate in.

Directly supervise could imply that the employee can go and collect the data while following guidelines set by the assessor. It does not say the licensee must be onsite. So could someone work under a licensed lab and still conduct testing ![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif)

This is how the Radon testing is conducted by many. You go, do, collect while following a set procedure. The licensee is the mother company, which could be out of state. The licensee receives the data, creates the report and provides the client the information.


--
Rob Z.
www.RZinspections.com

valued quote from James Bushart
"An association of members will stick together and be there for each other, whether they are directly affected or not."